AHC: Großraumwirtschaft

Nietzsche

Banned
So, I've been doing some reading on Goering. What fascinates me most is how radically different his ideas were in regards to the future of the German state. He didn't want lebensraum, per-say, but economic hegemony of south-eastern Europe, and whatever could be roped in from the east.

So, I ask you, how do we accomplish this, and what are the ramifications? What would this Europe look like? In my head, I see a much, much larger Zollverein, with Berlin having more power over the lesser member states. But, I know I am not the end-all-be-all of knowledge in regards to Goering's ideas of a Europe dominated by Germany. So do please post.
 

Deleted member 1487

So, I've been doing some reading on Goering. What fascinates me most is how radically different his ideas were in regards to the future of the German state. He didn't want lebensraum, per-say, but economic hegemony of south-eastern Europe, and whatever could be roped in from the east.

So, I ask you, how do we accomplish this, and what are the ramifications? What would this Europe look like? In my head, I see a much, much larger Zollverein, with Berlin having more power over the lesser member states. But, I know I am not the end-all-be-all of knowledge in regards to Goering's ideas of a Europe dominated by Germany. So do please post.

Have you been reading Richard Overy's book on Goering? This was a topic there, which I also found very interesting. Check out too the 'Germany and the Second World War' series from the Militärgeschichtliches Forschungsamt:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany_and_the_Second_World_War
It covers the concept of this in the first volume.
I think it was pretty much Mittel Europa in action, from the first world war.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitteleuropa#Mitteleuropa_Plan
 
*cue post about how Germany was doomed to enter war with the USSR and get nuked/anthraxed at the end of it.

It could happen, probably, if Hitler dies early enough.
 

Nietzsche

Banned
Have you been reading Richard Overy's book on Goering? This was a topic there, which I also found very interesting. Check out too the 'Germany and the Second World War' series from the Militärgeschichtliches Forschungsamt:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany_and_the_Second_World_War
It covers the concept of this in the first volume.
I think it was pretty much Mittel Europa in action, from the first world war.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitteleuropa#Mitteleuropa_Plan
Very nice.

But how does he accomplish it? How does the West react? The Reds?
 
So, I've been doing some reading on Goering. What fascinates me most is how radically different his ideas were in regards to the future of the German state. He didn't want lebensraum, per-say, but economic hegemony of south-eastern Europe, and whatever could be roped in from the east.

So, I ask you, how do we accomplish this, and what are the ramifications? What would this Europe look like? In my head, I see a much, much larger Zollverein, with Berlin having more power over the lesser member states. But, I know I am not the end-all-be-all of knowledge in regards to Goering's ideas of a Europe dominated by Germany. So do please post.
interestingly, an apparently non-Nazi Germany is used in Empire Earth, and Goering appears to be the leading commander in that TL (some Americans in the last scenario specifically address him, not Hitler, when saying "we'll see you in hell"). there's also no mention of conquests aside from the invasion of Poland, Denmark, Norway, the Netherlands, France, and Britain and preparations for an inevitable conflict with Russia
 
you should check out Kalter Krieg by MSZ it will never be finished but it does give an interesting take on your question
 
Well, indications are that the French and the British were willing enough to allow German economic domination of Eastern Europe and the Balkans as long as Germany remained reliably anti-Communist: if Hitler falls down some stairs in the spring of '39, the west probably would be willing to patch up a new peace with Germany in spite of the Rape of Prague, as long as Goering refrained from any more land grabs (for a while, anyway).

Bruce
 

Deleted member 1487

Very nice.

But how does he accomplish it? How does the West react? The Reds?

http://www.amazon.com/Low-Dishonest-Decade-Economic-1930-1941/dp/0826414494

Also the 1st volume of the Germany and the Second World War series covers this question.
Basically setting up barter deals and having Britain recognize Germany's economic domination of the Balkans. Germany and Britain were relatively economically tight leading up to WW2 and apparently Germany was even allowed to trade within Britain's empire.
 

Nietzsche

Banned
Well, indications are that the French and the British were willing enough to allow German economic domination of Eastern Europe and the Balkans as long as Germany remained reliably anti-Communist: if Hitler falls down some stairs in the spring of '39, the west probably would be willing to patch up a new peace with Germany in spite of the Rape of Prague, as long as Goering refrained from any more land grabs (for a while, anyway).

Bruce
Interesting. Do you think, perhaps, Danzig(not the corridor) would be on the table, even after Prague? It can be (quite easily) argued that Danzig, being very majority German, deserves to re-enter the Reich. Especially when the vast majority of the population(the Danzigers that is) have been calling for it for quite a while.
 
IMHO Danzig would have been an easy concession by the brits, The Corridor would cause a big problem

germany would be insisting on getting it back, but honestly I don't know how many concessions they would make to poland if they get the corridor back (Exterritorial Road and railline to a Polish town???)
 
So, I've been doing some reading on Goering. What fascinates me most is how radically different his ideas were in regards to the future of the German state. He didn't want lebensraum, per-say, but economic hegemony of south-eastern Europe, and whatever could be roped in from the east.

So, I ask you, how do we accomplish this, and what are the ramifications? What would this Europe look like? In my head, I see a much, much larger Zollverein, with Berlin having more power over the lesser member states. But, I know I am not the end-all-be-all of knowledge in regards to Goering's ideas of a Europe dominated by Germany. So do please post.
Do what Germany did after 1989. Create EU. :D
But seriously now. Long time ago I red the book about Balkan before 1939. And actually already at that time Germany was heading that way. Yougoslavian, Romanian and Hungarian export depended on Germany buying their stuff.
Actually Czechoslovak economy was orientated mostly on export to Germany.
 

Nietzsche

Banned
IMHO Danzig would have been an easy concession by the brits, The Corridor would cause a big problem

germany would be insisting on getting it back, but honestly I don't know how many concessions they would make to poland if they get the corridor back (Exterritorial Road and railline to a Polish town???)
I could see them forcing Poland's hand down the line. As Germany becomes the load-bearer of Balkan and Eastern-European economies, it's just a matter of time before Poland becomes Germany's sock puppet.
 
So, we are assuming a no war scenario versus a short war scenario? What becomes of the regime's undesirables? Goering's hands weren't clean when it came to the holocaust in our timeline.
 

Cook

Banned
Do you think, perhaps, Danzig(not the corridor) would be on the table, even after Prague?
Danzig isn’t on the table even before Prague unless you can find a way of convincing the Poles that their rights in the city (free business, customs and transit rights, not civil rights) are still guaranteed.

Some means of suzerainty agreement whereby Danzig would nominally ‘return to the Reich’ and Germany would be able to claim sovereignty, but Poland would lease the city for the continued purposes of the existing customs and trade agreements. Albert Forster would go from being the president of the council to being the city’s Gauleiter, which he’d effectively been since 1933 anyway. Such arrangements, while not particularly unusual in diplomatic terms prior to the First World War, had to a large extent fallen out of favour in the League of Nations period, and would require someone far more sophisticated than Ribbentrop as Reich Foreign Minister to achieve. The hardest part would be convincing the Poles that nothing would actually be changing; this is only really achievable prior to March 1939, when the German’s broke the guarantees they’d undertaken at the Munich Conference and occupied the remainder of the Czechoslovakia.
 

Cook

Banned
If you are proposing a scenario where Goering becomes Fuhrer in the late 1938 – early 1939 period, after Hitler secretly named him as successor but before the start of the war, then you can almost rule out the war altogether; at least rule it out for several years and in any way resembling the Second World War we had. Goering had just remarried, had just become a father and was enjoying being the ‘rockstar’ of the Reich; he had no interest in doing anything that risked war with Britain and France. Goering was on good terms with Jozef Beck, the Polish foreign minister and in 1938 he spearheaded efforts to achieve an alliance with the Warsaw and in 1939 Goering was still against attacking Poland because it would lead to a wider war, despite Ribbentrop’s guarantees that the west would do nothing.
 
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