AHC: Good Kennedy-LBJ Relationship

The Kennedys and LBJ never got along with each other that well; What's worse, RFK and LBJ hated each other so much that some would say LBJ would want any other successor to him in 1968 IOTL, just not RFK.

So the challenge is to foster a good relationship between the Kennedys and LBJ.
 
The issue was more that John Kennedy felt if you gave Lyndon Johnson an inch, he would take a mile, mow and renovate that mile, and try to acquire the next town over. And he was right. That was Johnson's personality, and we saw how he treated power and people around him when he had power. I cannot recall this exactly, but Johnson tried to do something to the effect of continuing as Senate Majority Leader while also Vice President, which was quickly shot down. Kennedy was worried he would try to coop the powers of the presidency and push Kennedy out, despite what their offices were on paper. The matter is if Kennedy can trust Johnson in the office of the vice presidency, and Johnson's personality would not allow that. Therefore, he was diminuitized. If the vice president had been someone like Symington or Humphrey, it would have been different, and it is an interesting scenario of what would a trusted, active vice president be like in a Kennedy administration. (It also brings to mind what if Kennedy had a Sec State he trusted instead of acting as his own because he thought Rusk was useless, what if he had a JCS he trusted, and so on. There's a lot of interesting scenarios with the Kennedy administration.) For the purposes of this scenario, I would argue taking that position, where by a handwave, Kennedy trusts Johnson in an active role and Johnson is willing to play his role and not attempt to be the other president.
 
1. Kennedy doesn't feel he needs Johnson to help carry Texas/the south, there for doesn't tap him to be VP. Maybe, privately, he talks with Johnson, strokes his ego, and tells him he'll be his go to guy in the senate while he's president.

or

2. Kennedy gets behind Johnson as VP. Doesn't plant the seed to Bobby that he doesn't want him. Maybe tries to manage him and gives Johnson important things to do, without giving too much.
 
1. Kennedy doesn't feel he needs Johnson to help carry Texas/the south, there for doesn't tap him to be VP. Maybe, privately, he talks with Johnson, strokes his ego, and tells him he'll be his go to guy in the senate while he's president.

or

2. Kennedy gets behind Johnson as VP. Doesn't plant the seed to Bobby that he doesn't want him. Maybe tries to manage him and gives Johnson important things to do, without giving too much.

1.) Hmmm. So he picks Symington?

LBJ would certainly want a paycheck if he's gonna be JFK's man in the Senate.

How will Kennedy handle legislation here? On Civil Rights? On Medicare and Medicaid? On Taft-Hartley? On Vietnam?

2.) Tell me more about this :)
 
Having Johnson in the Senate is a better option. Putting the "Master of the Senate" in the relatively powerless Vice-Presidency was a waste of talent. Love him or hate him, Johnson was able to corral the Senate and get legislation passed. With Kennedy in office he can push harder for Democrat legislation and still send pork (NASA) to Texas.
 
Last edited:
1.) Hmmm. So he picks Symington?
VP Symington might be interesting. As former Secretary of the Air Force, his military experience was well beyond that of Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon or Ford. Assuming he becomes president in late 1963, how might he handle the situation in Vietnam? Imagine that war is much shorter. How do the issues of the sixties progress? Does the draft go away? Does the voting age get lowered? On the other hand, Symington was more assertive on civil rights than Johnson, so we might see legislation in that area progress with more force.
 

Wallet

Banned
Or....Kennedy could actually give Johnson some "important" issue to be in charge of. Kinda like how Obama made Biden in charge of cancer research.

Something that makes Johnson feel important while also getting him out of the White House. This avoids a lot of tension.

What should Johnson be in charge of? Civil rights? Medicare? Space exploration?
 
Or....Kennedy could actually give Johnson some "important" issue to be in charge of. Kinda like how Obama made Biden in charge of cancer research.

Something that makes Johnson feel important while also getting him out of the White House. This avoids a lot of tension.

What should Johnson be in charge of? Civil rights? Medicare? Space exploration?
I think education would be interesting. Johnson was a teacher and education was a huge part of Kennedy's new frontier programs.
 
Having Johnson in the Senate is a better option. Putting the "Master of the Senate" wind up in the relatively powerless Vice-Presidency was a waste of talent. Love him or hate him, Johnson was able to corral the Senate and get legislation passed. With Kennedy in office he can push harder for Democrat legislation and still send pork (NASA) to Texas.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2015/01/11/the-power-of-lyndon-johnson-is-a-myth/
 
That refers to President Johnson. Senate Majority Leader Johnson was a different animal.

https://www.amazon.com/Master-Senate-Years-Lyndon-Johnson/dp/0394720954


51Pg05j9XKL._SY344_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg


Johnson was wasted in the Vice-Presidency and frankly the Presidency. His methods worked best as Majority Leader where he had real power and was a force of nature.
 
Last edited:
Johnsondoes better in his early political career, reaching the Senate in the 1941 special election, and Truman, seekinga Southerner who is against Jim Crow, picks him as his VP in '48. Johnsons' not as powerful but still is good at running things from the VP chair, the way John Adams always wanted the VP. position to be. Truman allows it because he, unlike Kennedy, doesn't mind the powerful Johnson doing this becasue he's comfortable as the incumbent, and Johnson does bring votes. They clash on the firing of MacArthur, and this dooms his chances of getting Truman's support in '52, so the not goes to Stevenson. Johnson goes back into the Senate in the '54 election.

Johnson is well known enough, and vindicated enough by the fact Korea became a stalemate, that he has the inside track on the nomination once 1960 rolls around, the "LBJ was right" vote wins him the nomination, and he captures the White House in a long, bitter fight with Nixon.

During this fight, JFK - who was picked for VP 4 years earlier (he was considered OTL) is stinging from the defeat, but is willing to accept Johnson's call to be the VP nominee again. He feels that, unlike the fight with Ike, this is a fight where he can look like the "nice young boy who helps the teacher all the time while the ruffians square off in school." And, he does - the image idea works, and he is seen as one reason Johnson won the White House over the unknown Lodge and the rascal Nixon. (We'll leave aside the obvious jokes about how he acts real nice in class but what he's actually doing after the school dance behind the football stadium. :)

Kennedy is concerned about Johnson's domineering attitude, but he lost once and felt lucky enough to be picked for VP again, so he has no qualms about biding his time and waiting for 1968. Besides, Johnson was VP under Truman and the connection to the FDR-Truman years makes playing second fiddle seem not as harsh as it would. He does Johnson's bidding as VP in working with the Senate and just figures he'll succeed him just like Truman did FDR eventuallyand anything to Bobby that's confidential but leaks out is easily met with, "This is far less incriminating than what you did to Truman over the MacArthur decision." And, Johnsonr eluctantly agres and lets Kennedy have his private reservations about Johnson's power grabs.
 
That refers to President Johnson. Senate Majority Leader Johnson was a different animal.

https://www.amazon.com/Master-Senate-Years-Lyndon-Johnson/dp/0394720954


51Pg05j9XKL._SY344_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg


Johnson was wasted in the Vice-Presidency and frankly the Presidency. His methods worked best as Majority Leader where he had real power and was a force of nature.

Johnson could do what Johnson could do with the people in Congress that were there. Otherwise, the Civil Rights Act of 1957 would have been what the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was. It was watered down precisely because Lyndon Johnson cannot cure the lepers with the touch of his hand.
 
Top