AHC : Global Hellenism

We've seen various Hellenic timeline ideas before, but I'm curious as to how people think it could be done that the world falls under a Hellenic cultural hegemony. By this I don't just mean Greek rule, I mean a ruling class that is Hellenic (i.e. Greco-Gallic, Helleno-Cantonese) in near every polity, Greek of some kind as a global lingua franca, and a common Hellenic culture that is woven into the local culture of every polity.

How would you do it?
 
Alas - limited to only the Mediterranean and the Middle East. In China, the harder it will be to gain a foothold.

Alright, so China will be a big obstacle (I'll throw India, Indonesia and Indochina as issues too) - how do we overcome this? Hellenic colonial Empires? Hellenic Indian Ocean traders?

Actually, the idea that a Greek colony in a trader-influenced Indonesia pulls a Philip and conquers the archipelago is certainly an idea. It wouldn't be able to be a pure Greek, but certainly deeply hellenic. That could be a major anchor that helps in east asia. Plus, having a permanent East Asian rival to China in Indonesia will certainly change things.
 

Deleted member 97083

We've seen various Hellenic timeline ideas before, but I'm curious as to how people think it could be done that the world falls under a Hellenic cultural hegemony. By this I don't just mean Greek rule, I mean a ruling class that is Hellenic (i.e. Greco-Gallic, Helleno-Cantonese) in near every polity, Greek of some kind as a global lingua franca, and a common Hellenic culture that is woven into the local culture of every polity.

How would you do it?
That's an interesting timeline idea. And also a terrible dystopia as it approaches the modern era.

Basically the non-Hellenized peoples being trampled-on peasants and slaves for millennia and having no self-determination. And if one Hellenic dynasty is overthrown by the masses, the others want to preserve their power and conquer/partition it to retain Hellenic control of the world.
 
That's an interesting timeline idea. And also a terrible dystopia as it approaches the modern era.

Basically the non-Hellenized peoples being trampled-on peasants and slaves for millennia and having no self-determination. And if one Hellenic dynasty is overthrown by the masses, the others want to preserve their power and conquer/partition it to retain Hellenic control of the world.

It does depend on whether or not the people are Hellenised over time. Historically there is a measure of assimilation.

@WotanArgead - I did like Sersors Massalia timeline :D
 

Deleted member 97083

It does depend on whether or not the people are Hellenised over time. Historically there is a measure of assimilation.

@WotanArgead - I did like Sersors Massalia timeline :D
There is a measure of assimilation, but I think the people of Egypt, Mesopotamia, Persia, and India probably couldn't be fully Hellenized without being part of a massive Rome-like empire.

Now a league that assimilates Gauls, like Sersor's Massalia, would be different. But diadochi from a mega-Alexander's conquests, I think they would become some terrible mix of feudalism and Sparta if they lasted into the 2nd millenium AD.

The Romans surviving into the 20th century could be terrible as well.
 
There is a measure of assimilation, but I think the people of Egypt, Mesopotamia, Persia, and India probably couldn't be fully Hellenized without being part of a massive Rome-like empire.

Now a league that assimilates Gauls, like Sersor's Massalia, would be different. But diadochi from a mega-Alexander's conquests, I think they would become some terrible mix of feudalism and Sparta if they lasted into the 2nd millenium AD.

The Romans surviving into the 20th century could be terrible as well.

This suggests that one of the best ways to achieve the challenge is to use mercantile leagues that assimilate the locals in the process. Either that or successful Alexanders who have mixed Hellenic/Conquered legions.
 

Deleted member 97083

This suggests that one of the best ways to achieve the challenge is to use mercantile leagues that assimilate the locals in the process. Either that or successful Alexanders who have mixed Hellenic/Conquered legions.
But mercantile leagues will compete with each other for the same trade routes. That makes conquering the world much harder as the Hellenes undermine each other.
 
But mercantile leagues will compete with each other for the same trade routes. That makes conquering the world much harder as the Hellenes undermine each other.

Depends on whether the increased hellenic bases are more useful than the competition is unhelpful.

I'd actually think that the competition might be beneficial

1) They need more manpower, so getting more locals on side is ++good.
2) They need better products, so reach further afield
3) If one conquers the other, they then have disproportionate power - and since they've got a common hellenic background, they are easier to keep united, and therefore can exert more political power than they could have seperately (greater than sum of parts)
 
But seriously speaking, China is your main difficulty. Persia can be Hellenized, as proven in OTL, and with it comes the possible Hellenization of everything from Rome to India, but China will take real effort, bordering on ASB.

So yeah, Helleno-Persian Diadochi while the so-called mad king Alexandros undertakes an anabasis to the east with the loyal remnants of his army turned Helleno-Tocharian horselords. :p
 

Deleted member 97083

But seriously speaking, China is your main difficulty. Persia can be Hellenized, as proven in OTL, and with it comes the possible Hellenization of everything from Rome to India, but China will take real effort, bordering on ASB.

So yeah, Helleno-Persian Diadochi while the so-called mad king Alexandros undertakes an anabasis to the east with the loyal remnants of his army turned Helleno-Tocharian horselords. :p
Just get Helleno-Soviet Russia and Helleno-Japanese Empire to team up against China in the 20th century.
 

Skallagrim

Banned
If Arnold Toynbee is to be believed, Alexander living a few decades longer would eventually result in a Hellenic world-empire under the Argeadic dynasty. (Spoiler alert: Toynbee, for all the respect he is due, is NOT to be believed on this. His excercise in alternate history is a truly ludicrous Alexander-wank that makes the Draka look very realistic and modest.)

Of course, I do in fact agree that Alexander living a few decades longer and leaving his empire to a succesful heir is the best way to really wank Hellenism as much as you realistically can. It would never be world-wide, but you could easily imagine one of Alexander's heirs eventually conquering India after all (with Alexander himself having already taken Arabia and the western Med)-- thus creating an empire that stretches from Gibraltar to Bangladesh (to use the OTL names), and potentially from the Crimea to Yemen, or even including "Azania" (the Greek name for east Africa, where Greeks actually traded during the Hellenistic age). But I don't really see it expanding beyond such borders. One culture imposed on the whole world just seems pretty hard to do...

I think that's pretty much the best case scenario for spreading Hellenic culture. Of course, if we look at Alexander's intentions, it would be a hybrid culture everywhere. Greece itself would be changed by the other cultures just as much as those cultures would be affected by Hellenism. (Of course, one might say that this is exactly what makes the idea so captivating; I certainly would say so!)
 

Deleted member 97083

Of course, I do in fact agree that Alexander living a few decades longer and leaving his empire to a succesful heir is the best way to really wank Hellenism as much as you realistically can. It would never be world-wide, but you could easily imagine one of Alexander's heirs eventually conquering India after all (with Alexander himself having already taken Arabia and the western Med)-- thus creating an empire that stretches from Gibraltar to Bangladesh (to use the OTL names), and potentially from the Crimea to Yemen, or even including "Azania" (the Greek name for east Africa, where Greeks actually traded during the Hellenistic age). But I don't really see it expanding beyond such borders. One culture imposed on the whole world just seems pretty hard to do...

I think that's pretty much the best case scenario for spreading Hellenic culture.
If they survive long enough, Hellenistic states can colonize the New World and Australia, making those extensions of the Hellenic world, and then industrialize and try to conquer everything else. Romance and Germanic countries were able to do much of that.

But in this case it's not just Europe going on the Scramble for Africa and colonization of Asia, but also the entire Middle East is colonizing, and India is colonizing, and both of them are Hellenistic.
 
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