AHC: Give Sonic the Hedgehog a stronger gameography

[Aluma]

Then again, it could be his super form protected him from the fall.

I believe that was the case and then he was found by Eggman before Heroes

Honestly, it does sorta make sense. After all, how the hell did we go from the Biolizard over to Shadow in such a short period of time then?

I've seen theories about him finding a mural like the one in the Hidden Palace and using his research there to try recreate the being despicted in the mural
I'm a sucker for the idea that Shadow is just a manmade atempt at creating Super Sonic

 

[CountDVB]

I've seen theories about him finding a mural like the one in the Hidden Palace and using his research there to try recreate the being despicted in the mural
I'm a sucker for the idea that Shadow is just a manmade atempt at creating Super Sonic

I am a big believer of that theory, but that said, I meant that the leap from Biolizard to Shadow was massive in terms of biotechnology. After all, if this was 50 years ago, then biotech would still be quite limited. Gerald getting help from aliens to make Shadows makes alot of sense there in retrospect, especially if the field of genetic engineering was not his specialty.

Honestly, I don't think we have anyone like that in Sonic's verse. But yeah, overall I do think shelving Shadow and Secret Rings would've enabled 06 to be better and in turn give Sonic a better gameography because SEGA wouldn't be caught in a clumsy fumbling state and in turn, would be able to make different decisions and avoided some mental traps.

 

[Aluma]

I am a big believer of that theory

Same!

but that said, I meant that the leap from Biolizard to Shadow was massive in terms of biotechnology. After all, if this was 50 years ago, then biotech would still be quite limited. Gerald getting help from aliens to make Shadows makes alot of sense there in retrospect, especially if the field of genetic engineering was not his specialty.

Absolutely, I think Gerald going from failed Chaos clones to the Ultimate Life Form due to the Black Arms's help is perfectly reasonable
Like I said, I think he being aware of them and making both the Eclipse Cannon & Shadow to defend Earth from them is fine

I do however think that making Doom his genetic progenitor was a little much, like the whole "Shadow is part alien" thing sounds too much like yet another Sephiroth copycat, just having him provide the technology for his creation and the, hm, black-red design choice would work for me


Now for the OP

Since they said they would like a proposal other than Sega completing the games and everything going great, here's a proposal for a possibly Alt-Development:

Sega accepts the deal with Sony

Now that predates the POD(Dreamcast Era) but I think it works if you want something different

Basically with Sega working with Sony to create a "Sega Playstation" the Sonic the Hedgehog franchise would by extension become the mascot of the console much like Crash Bandicoot did IOTL

Now, Crash wouldnt cease to exist, but there wouldnt be any reason to pick him over Sonic when Sega is helping you build your console

So instead of the Adventure Series I would expect Sonic under a partnership with Sony to be more of what Xtreme was going for, with a path of development mimicking that of Crash's own IOTL, at the expense of his franchise

Thus I'd expect something like "Sonic Xtreme, Sonic Xtreme 2: Eggman Strikes Back, Sonic Xtreme 3: Wrath of the Egg, Sonic Twinsanity, Sonic & the Titans " and so on with every Crash & Sonic Post-Genesis games being butterflied away

Thus Sonic remains a prestigious worldwide success and the face of not only Sega but Playstation itself from 1 all the way to the current 5

But at what cost?

 

[CountDVB]

Same!

Absolutely, I think Gerald going from failed Chaos clones to the Ultimate Life Form due to the Black Arms's help is perfectly reasonable
Like I said, I think he being aware of them and making both the Eclipse Cannon & Shadow to defend Earth from them is fine

I do however think that making Doom his genetic progenitor was a little much, like the whole "Shadow is part alien" thing sounds too much like yet another Sephiroth copycat, just having him provide the technology for his creation and the, hm, black-red design choice would work for me

Granted, why else would someone like Black Doom help unless he could corrupt said project to serve as his agent? Like, the whole reason behind this project is to create a powerful lifeform for the sake of learning on biological engineering. Black Doom donating his genetic material (possibly secretive) would enable a form of connection.

Now for the OP

Since they said they would like a proposal other than Sega completing the games and everything going great, here's a proposal for a possibly Alt-Development:

Sega accepts the deal with Sony

Now that predates the POD(Dreamcast Era) but I think it works if you want something different

Basically with Sega working with Sony to create a "Sega Playstation" the Sonic the Hedgehog franchise would by extension become the mascot of the console much like Crash Bandicoot did IOTL

Now, Crash wouldnt cease to exist, but there wouldnt be any reason to pick him over Sonic when Sega is helping you build your console

So instead of the Adventure Series I would expect Sonic under a partnership with Sony to be more of what Xtreme was going for, with a path of development mimicking that of Crash's own IOTL, at the expense of his franchise

Thus I'd expect something like "Sonic Xtreme, Sonic Xtreme 2: Eggman Strikes Back, Sonic Xtreme 3: Wrath of the Egg, Sonic Twinsanity, Sonic & the Titans " and so on with every Crash & Sonic Post-Genesis games being butterflied away

Thus Sonic remains a prestigious worldwide success and the face of not only Sega but Playstation itself from 1 all the way to the current 5

But at what cost?

SEGA becoming Sony exclusives would be a pretty intriguing site to see though oof, I could see Nintendo and Microsoft becoming pretty concerned about all of this.

I actually had something like this happen in my Al Gore presidency timeline, though with Microsoft buying out SEGA.

 

[Nivek]

Your challenge is to significantly improve Sonic's gameography from 2002 onwards.

The issue is Sonic truly feel the Focus of not being a first party, Improving heroes(reduce all teams to just 2 or just the main trio, ie the titular heroes), Sonic 06 should have better development time or fully delayed to avoid OTL messes so it become better or merely mediocre, not splitting development team would be vital, a mediocre 06 could still be a push to create the Hedgehog Engine and and Unleashed/World Adventures more focused. that would help massively

 

[Aluma]

, why else would someone like Black Doom help unless he could corrupt said project to serve as his agent? Like, the whole reason behind this project is to create a powerful lifeform for the sake of learning on biological engineering. Black Doom donating his genetic material (possibly secretive) would enable a form of connection.

Indeed, I figured he would try to add some kind of programming to make Shadow turn against humanity and be blindly obedient to him should psychological manipulation fail

So we'd still get that scene where he overcomes both and this happens

I actually had something like this happen in my Al Gore presidency timeline, though with Microsoft buying out SEGA.

That sounds both intriguing and horrifying because Microsoft is an amazing game developer but the thought of Bill Gates owning Sonic does give me shivers

 

[CountDVB]

That sounds both intriguing and horrifying because Microsoft is an amazing game developer but the thought of Bill Gates owning Sonic does give me shivers

You can read my timelines over in my sig if you want, but long story short, Microsoft gets divided like originally planned regarding the court case and that pushes Microsoft to get SEGA to try and reinforce the success of the Xbox over in 2001. Despite that, Microsoft is pretty lax with SEGA and lets them do their own thing for the most part.

Anyway, back to the topic of the thread, I am wondering if the greater success means SEGA and Sonic Team won't feel as pressured? We likely wouldn't get Sonic Boom in this case, for good or bad.

 

[Aluma]

We likely wouldn't get Sonic Boom in this case

I would like the show to exist and I think a more successful Sega would likely pursue other markets such as tv shows like we see with Prime so it might still exist
Tho no game adaptation most likely which, considering OTL, is a big plus

 

[deathenfield]

You know if the Sonic games became far more popular and successful as a result of these changes, I'm curious about what effect, if any, it might have on other video game companies? It would funny if Sega suddenly became a major competition for Nintendo again but I don't think that might happen even if all the Sonic games were spectacular lol

 

[Aluma]

You know if the Sonic games became far more popular and successful as a result of these changes, I'm curious about what effect, if any, it might have on other video game companies? It would funny if Sega suddenly became a major competition for Nintendo again but I don't think that might happen even if all the Sonic games were spectacular lol

That would be hilarious but I think as long Sega isnt competing against Nintendo in the console market they'd rather take advantage of Sonic's popularity by proposing crossover games and such like Smash

 

[deathenfield]

That would be hilarious but I think as long Sega isnt competing against Nintendo in the console market they'd rather take advantage of Sonic's popularity by proposing crossover games and such like Smash

Highly unlikely but funny timeline: The recent, newfound commercial success of the Sonic series inspires Sega to announce the re-opening of their console division in 2010 and plan to release their new console for Gen 8. In 2012, Nintendo releases the Wii U and just like in OTL, it flops massively with disastrous sales and mixed reviews. Sega releases their new console in 2013 and with the fortunate timing of the poor Wii U sales, the new Sega console becomes a smash hit. Nintendo now finds themselves in Sega's position over a decade ago with the failure of Dreamcast.

 

[AltoRegnant]

Well, sonic 3d blast was a reaction to X-treme entering development hell, and that seems like it put sonic on the backfoot for the period. 3D Blast was received well but eventually criticized for... it's entire design. So X-Treme staying afloat would likely help. But if we want to keep pods after thier console flight- no Wii contract. 06 was a result of them trying to map the adventure formula to the wii, failing, and having to make Sonic and the Secret Ring at the same time. If none of that happens, or "06 Wii" is viable, then the game ships in a much better state (likely with a more sorted out story.)

From there, Sega doesn't lose its confidence and throw everything at the wall. Idk enough about the shadow game to work with it

 

[Aluma]

Highly unlikely but funny timeline: The recent, newfound commercial success of the Sonic series inspires Sega to announce the re-opening of their console division in 2010 and plan to release their new console for Gen 8. In 2012, Nintendo releases the Wii U and just like in OTL, it flops massively with disastrous sales and mixed reviews. Sega releases their new console in 2013 and with the fortunate timing of the poor Wii U sales, the new Sega console becomes a smash hit. Nintendo now finds themselves in Sega's position over a decade ago with the failure of Dreamcast.

It IS unlikely but honestly hilarious
Another (also improbable) possibility could be a more refined Dreamcast being like the Playstation in success while Nintendo butchers the N64 and you have a reversal of OTL from all the way back

 

[EmperorBasil]

I've always believed one of the biggest things holding Sonic back from becoming a stronger brand is their failure to successfully break into other genres. Like, they've had a lot of failures through the years - many of which have already been noted so I won't touch on them - but the lack of brand expansion for it is, to me, a main thing keeping Sonic stagnant. You guys mentioned Sonic having a loyal fanbase that has stuck by it through thick and thin for decades, and that is true. There's both positives and negatives to that. You've seen the positives, but the negative is that Sonic has very much formed "an image" of what kind of game it has to be - the speedy platformer where the goal is to feel the rush as you try to get a good time and blaze past all of Eggman's robots. This has made it a brand able to last a large amount of failures and mediocrities that have killed other former stars (though some "failures" have been overexaggerated in my opinion), but it lacks the flexibility to branch out. That's what makes something like Mario so much more prominent than Sonic - its ability to branch out. Mario can be an RPG, a party game, a sports game, its debut style, or anything else. Sonic, on the otherhand, universally only does well on sales and feedback from critics and fans alike when it sticks to the speedy platforming, and all its other spin-offs just lag behind and never get talked about. Just about the only major change that successful Sonic games have made in their formula since the first game debuted has been mixing in 3D and 2.5D into games alongside the traditional 2D levels.

Whenever an attempt to branch is made, those parts are usually what get criticized the most. What I think needs to be done to make Sonic a more successful brand starting from 2002 is for resources to be focused on to one of the many attempts to diversify Sonic's gameplay and genres. I know you guys have said the opposite -that instead those games should be shelved or cancelled and resources focused in to one of the more traditional games to ensure said games don't come half-baked - but I don't believe doing otherwise would lead to a stronger gameography. They would lead to stronger initial sales, but Sonic will always continue to lag behind as long as it stays stuck in a stagnant brand. It needs a true breakout game from among those more "unique" attempts. It's got a few cult classics that attempted to diversify a bit over the years, but those were generally handhelds and therefore did not get as much attention as games on the PS and Nintendo consoles. That's not to say whichever point would make the best "potential breakout game" needs to be perfect, just good enough to give Sonic as a brand somewhere to work on to being more than just a speedy platformer brand.

It shouldn't be a complete break either for said break-out title. Just something to ease something new in to build on. Going completely brand new on a main title game would more than likely ostracize the loyal fan-base. Sorry if this seems much about nothing. Just my thoughts on Sonic of the new millenium at large.

 

[Aluma]

I feel like Sonic did sucessfully branch out before as seen with the Olympic Games, Battle & Fighters, Riders and so on
Granted there was always a speedy element to them but they always did moderately well, not as great as a mainline game but thats to be expected

Likewise Sonic had two successful anime(though one became a movie in the best) and now two somewhat popular shows

If anything I think Sonic as a franchise grew despite the mainline games and the expectations built upon them, with Sonic himself being a extremely popular character that I'd argue is just as iconic as Pikachu despite most people being "whatever" about his games thinking they're just OK as they arent passionate fans nor harsh critics but may have had some positive experience with Sonic the character growing up(usually fanfiction, fan-animations or just seen Sonic X, and recently also the two movies & memes) which makes him well liked but that's about it

 

[EmperorBasil]

I feel like Sonic did sucessfully branch out before as seen with the Olympic Games, Battle & Fighters, Riders and so on
Granted there was always a speedy element to them but they always did moderately well, not as great as a mainline game but thats to be expected

I would like to point out I did reference all those (though I don't attribute Olympic Games to Sonic's popularity so much as Mario's) and in fact considered every single one of the series you named by name (along with Dark Brotherhood but Penders existing would always kill that regardless so not a good "breakout title"), but said they fail to actually reach a breakout level. I never said Sonic doesn't have spin-offs. I said the spin-offs have failed to reach a breakout level to actually redefine what Sonic can be.

 

[Aluma]

but said they fail to actually reach a breakout level. I never said Sonic doesn't have spin-offs. I said the spin-offs have failed to reach a breakout level to actually redefine what Sonic can be.

I understand, Im just saying collectively I do think they made a break out in the sense of, if not redefining, then they are at least defining the character more than the main series for the vast majority of the people

Penders existing

Truly a tragedy, maybe we could have the POD be just him not

 

[Viking25]

I feel like Sonic did sucessfully branch out before as seen with the Olympic Games, Battle & Fighters, Riders and so on
Granted there was always a speedy element to them but they always did moderately well, not as great as a mainline game but thats to be expected

Likewise Sonic had two successful anime(though one became a movie in the best) and now two somewhat popular shows

If anything I think Sonic as a franchise grew despite the mainline games and the expectations built upon them, with Sonic himself being a extremely popular character that I'd argue is just as iconic as Pikachu despite most people being "whatever" about his games thinking they're just OK as they arent passionate fans nor harsh critics but may have had some positive experience with Sonic the character growing up(usually fanfiction, fan-animations or just seen Sonic X, and recently also the two movies & memes) which makes him well liked but that's about it

TBH I haven't even finished a sonic game or played one since I was like.......5 maybe? All my knowledge of him comes from watching the cartoons as a kid. Thats it really.

 

[how]

Sonic got left behind by the PS2 platformers (Jak and Daxter, Ratchet and Clank, Sly Cooper), I was more of a Jak and Daxter guy so getting Sonic to run around with a gun might help him survive the 6th gen of consoles.

 

[EmperorBasil]

Sonic got left behind by the PS2 platformers (Jak and Daxter, Ratchet and Clank, Sly Cooper), I was more of a Jak and Daxter guy so getting Sonic to run around with a gun might help him survive the 6th gen of consoles.

That was literally what Shadow the Hedgehog (the game) was supposed to be, including literally using guns. He was supposed to be the darker, more "mature" take on Sonic. Instead, the game itself came off half-baked, needlessly edgy, and the gameplay itself was a bit rough to do in many aspects. I do still find it a guilty pleasure and play it every now and then when I boot up my PS2, but it was not successful at being "Sonic with a gun" like you're saying.

I understand, Im just saying collectively I do think they made a break out in the sense of, if not redefining, then they are at least defining the character more than the main series for the vast majority of the people

Fair enough. I was thinking "breakout" more in the sense of being able to broadly expand who Sonic is able to successfully appeal to (which in my view still hasn't changed all that much over the decades), but yours is a fair point as well! 👍