AHC: Give Hitler Lebensraum Without Invading the Soviet Union

Greenville

Banned
Find a way for Hitler and Nazi Germany to acquire more land and natural resources without bringing the weight of the Red Army into the conflict?
 
Find a way for Hitler and Nazi Germany to acquire more land and natural resources without bringing the weight of the Red Army into the conflict?

The problem is that the Fuhrer had very definite ideas on that subject which were by no means recent and had been made as clear as could be in *Mein Kampf*:

"And so we National Socialists . . . take up where we broke off six hundred years ago. We stop the endless German movement to the south and west, and turn our gaze toward the land in the East.

"If we speak of soil in Europe today, we can primarily have in mind only Russia and her vassal border states....

"The giant empire in the East is ripe for collapse: And the end of Jewish rule in Russia will also be the end of Russia as a state.”
 

Germaniac

Donor
If he settled for Poland... or moved south maybe, but really Russia was the target from the start.

Maybe Russia collapses before a german invasion?
 
Belarus, Ukraine and Baltic states aren't invaded by the Bolsheviks and stay independent until invaded by Germany. Certainly not as much land as the Nazi's were aiming for IOTL but it's still something, and the Germans would most likely be able to hold it.
 
There isn't really any other place where there is a large, almost endless land for the German people to colonize that was occupied by a race that needed to be "destroyed". In the North there were Aryans, in the West there were Aryans, and not enough land except across the ocean and in the South across the sea the land wasn't worthwhile.
 
Given that his original plan was extermination anyway, what difference does it make to go into the Balkans?

it was whole treasure chest of minerals and oil, chrome in Albania (went to Italy during the war though, my understanding largely undeveloped), coal in Kosovo, farmland in Banat to rival Ukraine, and oil of Romania.
 

CaliGuy

Banned
Find a way for Hitler and Nazi Germany to acquire more land and natural resources without bringing the weight of the Red Army into the conflict?
If Adolf Hitler can make peace with Britain, he can acquire Lebensraum in Poland and perhaps western France as well.

The problem is that the Fuhrer had very definite ideas on that subject which were by no means recent and had been made as clear as could be in *Mein Kampf*:

"And so we National Socialists . . . take up where we broke off six hundred years ago. We stop the endless German movement to the south and west, and turn our gaze toward the land in the East.

"If we speak of soil in Europe today, we can primarily have in mind only Russia and her vassal border states....

"The giant empire in the East is ripe for collapse: And the end of Jewish rule in Russia will also be the end of Russia as a state.”
Technically, Hitler can acquire eastern Lebensraum in Poland. Indeed, the interesting thing is that Germany didn't have a rapidly growing population during this time and thus its living space in Poland would have certainly been sufficient for it (heck, a smaller Germany was able to absorb 15 million ethnic Germans after the end of World War II in our TL!).
 

CaliGuy

Banned
There isn't really any other place where there is a large, almost endless land for the German people to colonize that was occupied by a race that needed to be "destroyed". In the North there were Aryans, in the West there were Aryans, and not enough land except across the ocean and in the South across the sea the land wasn't worthwhile.
Poland?

Also, for what it's worth, if Germany avoids bringing the U.S. into WWI and thus wins WWI, it could have large amounts of Lebensraum in the East (in Poland, Ukraine, and the Baltic states) without further invading the Soviet Union.
 
Find a way for Hitler and Nazi Germany to acquire more land and natural resources without bringing the weight of the Red Army into the conflict?
Africa would be a good location for some lebensraum. Just have Hitler being fascinated with the concept of MittelAfrica.
 

CaliGuy

Banned
Africa would be a good location for some lebensraum. Just have Hitler being fascinated with the concept of MittelAfrica.
The problem is, though, that Hitler wouldn't be able to acquire any additional African territory beyond Germany's lost colonies (which I believe Britain and France were willing to give back to Germany in 1937 in exchange for an end to German territorial claims in Europe).
 
Poland?

Also, for what it's worth, if Germany avoids bringing the U.S. into WWI and thus wins WWI, it could have large amounts of Lebensraum in the East (in Poland, Ukraine, and the Baltic states) without further invading the Soviet Union.

Poland wasn't big enough for Hitler's ambitions. It was combined with the idea to destroy the slavic people. The taking Poland was revenge for WWI, to reacquire lost territory, not for new resources and to colonize. This is also about trying to keep the Soviets out of the conflict, whilst capturing Poland was already a big provocation towards the Soviet Union(as it was in the Soviet sphere of influence as well) and agreement they made about the territory was always just temporarily, for both sides.

and this TL is not about Germany winning WWI. We are talking about Hitler and the Nazi Party, so a lost WWI.
 

Deleted member 1487

Find a way for Hitler and Nazi Germany to acquire more land and natural resources without bringing the weight of the Red Army into the conflict?
Yeah, no Halt Order, BEF crushed, Britain makes peace, Germany dominates continent and colonizes Poland and Czech areas. They draw on the resources of Europe and the European empires under their control. The German public would have their hands full producing enough people to replace the Poles and Czechs.
 

CaliGuy

Banned
Yeah, no Halt Order, BEF crushed, Britain makes peace, Germany dominates continent and colonizes Poland and Czech areas. They draw on the resources of Europe and the European empires under their control. The German public would have their hands full producing enough people to replace the Poles and Czechs.
Even in this TL, I can imagine how hard it would be for German Frauen to keep popping out babies to settle all of this Lebensraum! :(
 

Deleted member 1487

Even in this TL, I can imagine how hard it would be for German Frauen to keep popping out babies to settle all of this Lebensraum! :(
Considering the Nazis didn't even get back to pre-WW1 birth rates by the start of WW2 and German men will be away on occupation duties for a while...it might be tough, but that depends on whether occupation babies count and can be resettled.
 

CaliGuy

Banned
Considering the Nazis didn't even get back to pre-WW1 birth rates by the start of WW2 and German men will be away on occupation duties for a while...it might be tough, but that depends on whether occupation babies count and can be resettled.
Occupation babies?
 
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