AHC: Get America into WW2 with a "Remember the Maine" Type Event

My grandfather was a Marine when the Panay was attacked and he remembers his unit all expected war to start.

In a Panay plus ATL, would the US be more likely to DOW or just send tons of aid and 'volunteers to China while reinforcing the Philippines in preparation for a later conflict?

Oscars vs Buffaloes would be interesting though....
 

Wallet

Banned
AFAIK, Germany did not apologize. By that time, IIRC, US warships had dropped depth charges on suspected U-boats, and were deliberately entering the line of fire between suspected U-boats and target merchant ships (which was the case with Reuben James). Under those conditions, Germany would not be expected to apologize, I think. At most, there would be a statement that the US warship was not the target, and a strong suggestion that US ships stay out of combat .
Oh okay. Thanks
 
If they had succeeded could that have brought War about?

That depends a lot on how the perpetrators are handled by the Japanese government, and how the public reacts. If they get kid-glove treatment like a lot of young officers that pulled things in that period, the chances for war spike. Even assuming there isn't a war (which I suspect is by far the most likely outcome), relations between the two nations will become even more frigid than OTL.

Where did you learn this?

I read it in The Rising Sun: Decline and Fall of the Japanese Empire, by John Toland. Lucky coincidence - I just started reading it the week before last, so it was still fresh in my memory.

Going back to check, it's literally one line in a paragraph talking about the surge of anti-American sentiments in the year after the start of the war in China, and of the plans by "superpatriot" groups, without any further elaboration.
 
Even if it were only drunken talk by junior officers after hours it means something. Thats how the China incident started, with a bit of table pounding over excess Sake.
 
Even isolationist America wasn't terribly opposed to war with Japan. It was getting entangled in Europe's mess that people feared. After all, Washington's warning about entangling alliances had a pretty obvious meaning - Europe. The Monroe doctrine, Matthew Perry, and the Barbary Pirates all point to a legacy of an interventionist US policy as long as it was one of three areas: US Dominance in the Americans (or at least no European meddling), being an equal player in the Pacific, and protection of US trade.

I think if one of the earlier incidents had sparked war against Japan it might have actually saved the Germans from a US entry (if Hitler saw it as stumbling into the war instead of a sharp strike), and political pressure could have forced a Japan-first policy.
 
I remember that FDR once said something about wanting to make a military response to the Panay incident, but "no-one was interested". Can't remember where I read that, though.
 
Anything else you remember from your Grandfather? What unit he was in at the time?
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Don't know what Marine unit he was with. His Marine enlistment ended in Spring 1941. War was coming and being an enlisted Marine wasn't where he wanted to start a war.
He showed up at the Army recruiting center in Richmond, Va still wearing his Marine uniform. He took the tests, went through a crash OCS course and would up a fresh Lieutenant in the signal corp assigned to a liaison unit for the US Desert Air Force in Egypt. He dealt with more Limeys than Yanks there and followed the British 8th Army all the way to Sicily.
He finished up the war on garrison duty in Naples.
 
No problem. I will ask Dad about it and look through grandad's half written memoirs next time I visit home.
All I remember reading about his Marine days was describing the drill sergeants, one guy freaking out, and his speculation on another recruit's sexuality.
 
USS TEXAS getting popped in the Denmark Strait in June 1941 is probably the easiest scenario.

If you want a true "Remember the MAINE" type of incident where a ship blows up in port under strange circumstances, have USS HOUSTON blow up in Hong Kong Harbor during a goodwill visit in late November 1941 and have people blame it on sabotage by the Japanese. Not sure if that gets us into the war...
 
Would it be possible to get the United States into a war with Japan in 1940-1942 without Pearl Harbor, but with a more suspected attack than an open and provable one? Something similar to the Maine in the Spanish American War.

Assuming this occurs, would terms be as harsh for Japan, now that the war isnt perceived as a such an illegal sneak attack and therefor most Americans wouldn't be so adamant about "Total Victory". How does such an event effect the war and the public perception?

I had a thought about another "Paney Incident", the Japanese sinking another US Chinese river gunboat in 1939-40. That would be open and provable though. So, a US gunboat over in China blows up, killing most of the crew. Perhaps there were US Marines and/or US officials aboard the gunboat to add to the death toll. This, with memories of the Paney's loss, leads the US and Japan to war. I don't think terms will be as harsh for Japan.
 
USS TEXAS getting popped in the Denmark Strait in June 1941 is probably the easiest scenario.

If you want a true "Remember the MAINE" type of incident where a ship blows up in port under strange circumstances, have USS HOUSTON blow up in Hong Kong Harbor during a goodwill visit in late November 1941 and have people blame it on sabotage by the Japanese. Not sure if that gets us into the war...

That late in 1941, I think it just might. Though it is so close to December 7th. FDR asks for a declaration of war against Japan and Congress grants it. What could change with the events before December 7th?
 
That late in 1941, I think it just might. Though it is so close to December 7th. .... What could change with the events before December 7th?

Japanese raid on Oahu might be canceled under the assumption the US base & fleet will be alert and prepared. Japanese forces used to attack Maylasia & the Phillipines would not be ready & several frantic weeks of catchup would occur to bring preparations up to events. Wake & PI might be a little better prepared when the Japanese attacks diid come, tho overconfidence with some commanders could off set this. If any B17 are operational on Luzon Bereton my get to make his intended raids on Formosa & Japan.
 
I think the Houston one is the most like the Maine.

You need something to happen, get pushed by the press, and then it turns out we got into the war for no reason over a total accident.
 
I think the Houston one is the most like the Maine.

You need something to happen, get pushed by the press, and then it turns out we got into the war for no reason over a total accident.

Until after the war we learn that the Japanese were about to send their carrier strike force to Pearl Harbor to launch a pre-emptive strike. That of course fuels additional conspiracy theories that Roosevelt knew what the Japanese were up to and he ordered Houston blown up in Hong Kong harbor in order to trigger the war before the Japanese had all of their pieces in place.
 
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