AHC: Germanic speaking majority in modern Iberia

raharris1973

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...the challenge is to make this development happen by 1400 AD.

However, you may choose any PoD as far back 600 BC.
 
Well, if POD is allowed to be on 600 BC then just don't let Romans conquer Iberia. Then Germanic tribes move to area and germanise that.
 

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Have the Visigoths settle Goths (and other conquered Germanic tribesmen) on distinct lands meant only for Goths. The "barbarian tribes" had a legal and cultural separation with the Romans IOTL, but if in an ATL they also instituted a geographic separation, that could allow their populations to grow until natural assimilation (Romans wanting to declare themselves Goths) could allow a Germanic language to become dominant over Vulgar Latin.

@DanMcCollum had this happen in the Gothic Empire in his Amalingian timeline.
 

raharris1973

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Just let Rechila and Rechiar conquer it all from Rome, and then they can Germanify Iberia. Vorwarts Schwaben!

Were the Suevi known for being being more numerous or committed to their original language than the Visigoths or Vandals?
 
Were the Suevi known for being being more numerous or committed to their original language than the Visigoths or Vandals?

They were actually known for adopting local customs more than most other Germanic tribes, but there could be a chance that in an alternate timeline, Hermeric decides to preserve Germanic customs over local ones. The Vandals enforced this heavily on the Punics and Mauretanians, and they could do it themselves to their natives.
 
Were the Suevi known for being being more numerous or committed to their original language than the Visigoths or Vandals?
Had there even been enough numbers of Suevians ? Conquest of Iberia would not lead to a fully Germanization.
 
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Were there even enough numbers uf Suevis? And also later Goth conquest of Iberia would not lead to a fully Germanization given how divers this place os.

Wow, spelling and grammar. (no offense).

Rechiar would have a huge amount of power after he and Rechila had conquered the whole of Iberia for the Suevi over the natives, and would easily be able to assert their authority and influence over the natives into adopting Germanic customs.

I mean hey, the "ever supreme" Anglo-Saxon race was able to force nearly the entire Native American population, most people in Asia, and pretty much all urban Africans into adopting European customs. Yeah, I know the technological distance between the Suevi and Hispans is much shorter than that between colonial-era Europeans and people from other continents (significant offense to non-Europeans intended) but it's still the same principle. The Mongols did it to plenty of countries like Iran, Central Asia, and China as they adopted Mongol habits after the conquests.
 
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it would interesting if someone wrote a timeline where the germanic tribes keep their language and custom either by mass migration or by depopulating the Wertern Roman Empire
 
it would interesting if someone wrote a timeline where the germanic tribes keep their language and custom either by mass migration or by depopulating the Wertern Roman Empire

That's what happened in Britain, essentially - the Anglo-Saxon tribes moved en masse (barring some Frisians stayed in Frisia), while Celtic tribes already in Britain died out both from a convenient plague at the time and endless Celtic-Germanic warfare, allowing the English to form England and the mass of surviving British converging in Wales and Brittany.
 
It's very unlikely. And the Basques already had the highlands.

But it might be possible for a group somewhere in other highlands in Iberia to preserve a Germanic language, but they'd never be a majority even locally.

I mean hey, the "ever supreme" Anglo-Saxon race was able to force nearly the entire Native American population, most people in Asia, and pretty much all urban Africans into adopting European customs. Yeah, I know the technological distance between the Suevi and Hispans is much shorter than that between colonial-era Europeans and people from other continents (significant offense to non-Europeans intended) but it's still the same principle. The Mongols did it to plenty of countries like Iran, Central Asia, and China as they adopted Mongol habits after the conquests.

That wasn't the "Anglo-Saxon race", that was Europeans as a whole. And since Euro-Americans had the technological and organisational advantage in the 19th century versus other cultures, that shouldn't be altogether surprising.

And its obvious the situation in 5th century Europe is different than 19th century Africa and Asia or 16th-19th century Americas, or Asia during the rule of the Mongols. The Goths are not the Mongols. And since this thread is linguistically-based, how much Mongolian is spoken outside of ethnic Mongols? Not much, pretty much just Turkic groups which assimilated into Mongol culture.
 
That's what happened in Britain, essentially - the Anglo-Saxon tribes moved en masse (barring some Frisians stayed in Frisia), while Celtic tribes already in Britain died out both from a convenient plague at the time and endless Celtic-Germanic warfare, allowing the English to form England and the mass of surviving British converging in Wales and Brittany.
Of course. If the same model of germanization in Britain happen in rest of Western Europe and North Africa with the Vandals, where would the Romanized people do or go would be interesting. Although Its less probable in africa
 
Of course. If the same model of germanization in Britain happen in rest of Western Europe and North Africa with the Vandals, where would the Romanized people do or go would be interesting. Although Its less probable in africa

I don't know if it can happen, what happened in Britain was really a perfect storm - the British Celts were far more rural and less in number than even the Hispano-Romans to say nothing of the Gallo-Romans, which is why both war and plague allowed the English to retain their ethnic consciousness compared to other Germanics. Beyond that the British were reverting to Celtic customs and language if they ever stopped doing so in the first place, which meant no Latin prestige for the English to adopt.

England was essentially the exception to the rule of the Franks, Goths, Suebi, Lombards, Burgundians, Vandals, etc.
 
I don't know if it can happen, what happened in Britain was really a perfect storm - the British Celts were far more rural and less in number than even the Hispano-Romans to say nothing of the Gallo-Romans, which is why both war and plague allowed the English to retain their ethnic consciousness compared to other Germanics. Beyond that the British were reverting to Celtic customs and language if they ever stopped doing so in the first place, which meant no Latin prestige for the English to adopt.

England was essentially the exception to the rule of the Franks, Goths, Suebi, Lombards, Burgundians, Vandals, etc.
Well The turks didnt adopt greek even though they were outnumber in Anatolia
 
That's what happened in Britain, essentially - the Anglo-Saxon tribes moved en masse (barring some Frisians stayed in Frisia), while Celtic tribes already in Britain died out both from a convenient plague at the time and endless Celtic-Germanic warfare, allowing the English to form England and the mass of surviving British converging in Wales and Brittany.

Actually, this is a misconception, as genetic studies have found: only a relatively small number of Anglo-Saxons came to England. The great majority of the English people were of the same Celtic origin as the Welsh, but they adopted the language and culture of their conquerors.

The peculiar situation of England was that its Romano-British institutions collapsed in the wake of the Anglo-Saxon conquest, causing the latter to have to basically rebuild society. This was in contrast to places like Gaul, where the Roman civilization largely survived and the Franks just became the new overlords.
 
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Of course. If the same model of germanization in Britain happen in rest of Western Europe and North Africa with the Vandals, where would the Romanized people do or go would be interesting. Although Its less probable in africa

And that's why Britain is an outlier in this matter. The Vandals in the end would've done no more for Africa than given it a ruling class and maybe a new name--throughout the former Roman Empire, there was really no room to create a new Germanic ethnic group.

Africa had the Punic-speaking peoples, but IMO they probably would've been marginalised in most places by the African Romance-speaking peoples had the Muslims not come and totally changed the situation. There's also the Berbers, of course.

Could a visigothic Iberia in a no Islam scenario hold out?

It probably would've fragmented at some point. And linguistically it was already speaking a Romance language with Gothic confined to specific religious purposes (for the elite).
 
The peculiar situation of England was that its Romano-British institutions collapsed in the wake of the Anglo-Saxon conquest, causing the latter to have to basically rebuild society. This was in contrast to places like Gaul, where the Roman civilization largely survived and the Franks just became the new overlords.
then in order to imitate britain situation we destroy Roman Istituition in Western Europe
 
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