AHC: German India
- Thread starter LeCHVCK
- Start date
Define "German power". Would an independent Netherlands count as a "German power"? Because that is the only way possible (and not terribly likely, at least not an India as big as OTL British India). Well, you could go further back and have a POD somewhere during the Middle Ages. The problem is that any POD after 1500 is too late.
Flocculencio
Donor
Any POD that far back likely butterflies the circumstances that allowed Britain to gain such a dominant hegemony in India.
Ok, in that case I claim that it is impossible, or borderline impossible, especialy if Floc is right that a POD before 1500 would change India so much that British like colonization would be impossible.
Would there ever be a possibility of one of the George's doing a Leopold of Belgium and acquiring a controlling interest in the East India Company which then follows him as a personal holding when Voctoria takes the throne?
Ok so are parts of the subcontinent possible? Like a successful Prussian east india company?
That certainly is possible. Even Denmark controlled small parts of India. I could see a German country get a small part of India. The problem though is that they are rather small, poor, are in a bad location, often distracted by European matters and late compared to the major colonial powers, like England, France, Portugal and the Netherlands. Still I think Prussia could get a small amount of trading posts in India. Not sure if there are other obvious candidates.
Maybe Austria or Hannover?
And, some time back, someone suggested the possibility of Hanseatic League cities in North America - could something similar arise in India?
The Ostend Company had some Indian posts (not sure where or on what scale) so you need to prevent its disolution. The simplest way of doing this is to avoid the need for Maria Theresa to succeed. IIRC there are heirs who died who need not die, so the Habsburgs would not be so willing to trade the Company for recognition.
Come the later wars, Austrian possessions could coalesce and if they make a good showing against France in the theatre, maybe take some of France's possessions (France owned several, not just Pondicherry).
Best Regards
Grey Wolf
Come the later wars, Austrian possessions could coalesce and if they make a good showing against France in the theatre, maybe take some of France's possessions (France owned several, not just Pondicherry).
Best Regards
Grey Wolf
I suppose Austria is possible. Certainly if you keep it small. It does need a good port though, but I guess that the Southern Netherlands would/could do. Still I don't think an Austrian colonial empire would be as big as the Danish or Swedish colonial empires.
Hannover is overrated. They are in a bad position and aren't terribly important. They only reason they grew as big as they did OTL was because of Britain. I don't think they can have a colonial empire.
Hmm, not sure. Could be I guess. But I am not as big of a fan of the Hanseatic league as some of the other posters here. I think they have too much problems to solve befre they can even dream of India or America.
Well there was the Austrian Ostend Company that operated out of the Austrian Netherlands which traded with India and China as a competitor to the other European East India Companies and was rather profitable, the British didn't like the competition though so one of the terms of their accepting the Pragmatic Sanction of 1713 was that Charles VI wind the company up. If for whatever reason the Habsburgs don't have to agree to shut it down then that could make a decent starting point for developing from a trading presence to a more colonial one. After the Austrian Netherlands are lost during the French Revolutionary Wars the company's base of operations is moved to Trieste and Fiume and it carries on. You can then have the Austrians continue with it or if you want a German German India have Prussia take the company or its territory in India from them during one of their wars.
Huh? If Courland or Denmark were able to take a stab at creating them then I'm not sure what the bar to Hanover is. IIRC they didn't sell the site of what would become Bremerhaven until after the Napoleonic Wars so if they've already heavily entered the trade game before that they'll likely develop it themselves giving them a good port.
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RavenMM
Banned
If the 30 years war would have gone different with the HRE/MEperor keeping it's coastline, why should it be impossible?
First of all, it would be unlikely because after the thirty year war the Holy Roman Empire will (need to) focus on internal politics. it will have to deal with the protestants and other rebellious factions. Most will probably leave the country to safer areas, like the Netherlands, Engalnd or Scandinavia. This leaves the Empire with other problems, like a lack of people. The moment all these problems will be solved it will be decades later and at that point England, France, the Netherlands and portugal will have the best parts of India, so the only option for the HRE would be some small scale colonisation, like a couple of trading posts.
Trieste was the principal Austrian port and became the fourth largest city in A-H after Vienna, Budapest, and Prague. It's probably in a better position than Venice to house the Ostend Company.
this makes it impossible, up almost the 20th century quite a considerable part of germany spoke dutch (part of it as a second language)(as far east as the weser)
the standard german, the hochdeutsch is pretty much a artificial contraption that was forced onto the rest. with a netherlands belonging to germany/HRE, the whole language issue will turn out different.
the dutch will never feel german, but being part of some kind of german union is possible. and what is your definition of german, with a change so far back the whole concept will change. you might end up with a german bund that has the netherland/UP and austria as its cores instead of prussia.
Denmark controlled trading posts- that's hardly major in any way. The best you're getting out of any German powers is probably a trade post or two, which they eventually sell. Denmark was something of a naval power too.... None of the German states really were.
I know but in this timeline standard german could be more closer to dutch or low german. With a pod around 1500 you can butterfly the Spanish Habsburg and the Netherlands remain part of Austria. Without Spanish governors executing loyal Catholics and without them no or unsuccessful dutch revolts dutch remains a german dialect like plattdeusch or Bavarian.