AHC: German aircraft carrier attack on the British fleet

With a POD no earlier than January 1st 1900 have the German navy make a carrier strike on the British navy.

You've got a hundred and twelve years to play with so feel free to go hog wild.
 
Well if the German navy are just a little more forward thinking after seeing the results of the Cuxhaven Raid, you could have a sort of proto-arms-race going on in WW1, and thus a more carrier-friendly Kriegsmarine in the lead-up to WW2.
 
Taft bows out in 1912, TR wins, butterflies ensure no USW, Germany wins WWI

20 years later a new war starts, probably over something in the Balkans and the Hochseeflotte and Grand Fleet slug it out with aircraft carriers
 
Well if the German navy are just a little more forward thinking after seeing the results of the Cuxhaven Raid, you could have a sort of proto-arms-race going on in WW1, and thus a more carrier-friendly Kriegsmarine in the lead-up to WW2.

A stronger taking up of the idea of air power in WW1 seems quite feasable; however it is likely to lead to Germany being forbidden carriers at the peace treaties.
 

BlondieBC

Banned
With a POD no earlier than January 1st 1900 have the German navy make a carrier strike on the British navy.

You've got a hundred and twelve years to play with so feel free to go hog wild.

Easy, Prince Henry was a technological innovator compared to the other Admirals. Instead of losing a political struggle in 1909 and being exiled from combat command, make him the head of the Germany Navy. He would have likely had a carrier of some sort (seaplane) by 1914, and he would have used it in the war.

Or

Germany wins WW1, and when WW2 comes around has a carrier.

Or

WW1 is happens in the mid-1920's when Germany likely has a few carriers.

Or

Just have someone decide that carriers matter in 1914 and start converting the large merchant hulls into carriers. If these ships are given priority over the dreadnoughts, there is plenty of capacity to convert them. They may not be full, modern WW2 type light carriers, but they would be able to launch airplanes that carry bombs and torpedoes.
 
A stronger taking up of the idea of air power in WW1 seems quite feasable; however it is likely to lead to Germany being forbidden carriers at the peace treaties.
If they did their testing within sight of their own shores then it might be possible to avoid Entente eyes garnering enough information to ban them. Do you think they could get their hand in on light carriers with the excuse of spotting air-sea rescue targets and evaluating sea conditions (no sense in setting down a flying boat in conditions that would just make the pilots victims as well)?
 
Easy, Prince Henry was a technological innovator compared to the other Admirals. Instead of losing a political struggle in 1909 and being exiled from combat command, make him the head of the Germany Navy. He would have likely had a carrier of some sort (seaplane) by 1914, and he would have used it in the war.

Or

Germany wins WW1, and when WW2 comes around has a carrier.

Or

WW1 is happens in the mid-1920's when Germany likely has a few carriers.

Or

Just have someone decide that carriers matter in 1914 and start converting the large merchant hulls into carriers. If these ships are given priority over the dreadnoughts, there is plenty of capacity to convert them. They may not be full, modern WW2 type light carriers, but they would be able to launch airplanes that carry bombs and torpedoes.
Were WWI aircraft capable of carrying enough firepower to damage warships though?

In any case, an alternate ending to WWI in which Germany isn't banned carriers (ie, no Versailles treaty) can very well result in a round two with the German Navy having a carrier or two. For the sake of argument, have them ally with Russia/USSR so they aren't worried about a large two-front land war and therefore they invest more in the navy and air force.
 

BlondieBC

Banned
Were WWI aircraft capable of carrying enough firepower to damage warships though?

In any case, an alternate ending to WWI in which Germany isn't banned carriers (ie, no Versailles treaty) can very well result in a round two with the German Navy having a carrier or two. For the sake of argument, have them ally with Russia/USSR so they aren't worried about a large two-front land war and therefore they invest more in the navy and air force.

Yes, they were working on 14" torpedoes in 1912 for the Royal Navy. I believe that will seriously harm even a dreadnought of the day. This is was a time period where airplanes were rapidly improving. Look at the link below.

http://www.wwiaviation.com/bombers_german.html

The Germans had one seaplane carrier by the end of WW1, so yes, if the Germans win or even have a cold peace, they could easily have several converted BC to carriers like the USA does. In a Germany win/cold peace, I would not rule of a naval limitation treaty. Everyone but the USA was flat broke by 1918.
 
[FONT=&quot]The following is hopefully less wacky than the other alternate but its pure speculation presented to find out why it wouldn't work. :)
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Assuming no magic ‘junta’ how do you persuade Hitler to forgo a battleship force and go for carriers? Maybe by presenting it in ideological terms:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Battleships while a symbol of national strength play into the hands of the old school Admirals, the men who still think they are fighting for the Kaiser and have little enthusiasm for National Socialism.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Aircraft carriers on the other hand are both new weapons of great importance, (the British, Americans, and Japanese certainly seem to think so), and a chance to build a new navy with a clean slate. A force that like the Luftwaffe is built around the ideology and methods of National Socialism.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Now of course it probably depends whose selling the message and what sort of mood they catch Hitler in but let’s say he goes along. Second snag is that trying to lay down carriers earlier is going to run into problems with the Versailles Treaty. Someone has a bright idea. The first carrier Germany builds isn’t going to be much more than a learning experience anyway, why not speed construction and dodge the Treaty restrictions by making it a merchant ship?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Thus the Eisbyr is built. It’s allegedly meant to provide a refuelling platform for mail planes travelling from Germany to South America. No one of course is really fooled but the since the Germans seem to have cooled on building large battleships (and there are still plenty of Admirals willing to assure the politicians that carriers will never threaten the supremacy of the battleship) they choose to ignore it. Lacking strong British support the French also, grudgingly, allow the pretence to work[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Eisbyr is a terrible ship and the various aircraft used on it suffer frequent accidents but it serves its purpose and answers many of the questions about what sort of ships Germany's carriers should be…[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]And that’s pretty much as far as I can get! :)[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
 

BlondieBC

Banned
[FONT=&quot]The following is hopefully less wacky than the other alternate but its pure speculation presented to find out why it wouldn't work. :)
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Assuming no magic ‘junta’ how do you persuade Hitler to forgo a battleship force and go for carriers? Maybe by presenting it in ideological terms:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Battleships while a symbol of national strength play into the hands of the old school Admirals, the men who still think they are fighting for the Kaiser and have little enthusiasm for National Socialism.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Aircraft carriers on the other hand are both new weapons of great importance, (the British, Americans, and Japanese certainly seem to think so), and a chance to build a new navy with a clean slate. A force that like the Luftwaffe is built around the ideology and methods of National Socialism.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Now of course it probably depends whose selling the message and what sort of mood they catch Hitler in but let’s say he goes along. Second snag is that trying to lay down carriers earlier is going to run into problems with the Versailles Treaty. Someone has a bright idea. The first carrier Germany builds isn’t going to be much more than a learning experience anyway, why not speed construction and dodge the Treaty restrictions by making it a merchant ship?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Thus the Eisbyr is built. It’s allegedly meant to provide a refuelling platform for mail planes travelling from Germany to South America. No one of course is really fooled but the since the Germans seem to have cooled on building large battleships (and there are still plenty of Admirals willing to assure the politicians that carriers will never threaten the supremacy of the battleship) they choose to ignore it. Lacking strong British support the French also, grudgingly, allow the pretence to work[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Eisbyr is a terrible ship and the various aircraft used on it suffer frequent accidents but it serves its purpose and answers many of the questions about what sort of ships Germany's carriers should be…[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]And that’s pretty much as far as I can get! :)[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]

Easy, one of Hitler buddies very early on is a Naval guy who was pro-carrier. The Germans had one aircraft (seaplane) carriers in WW1, so say the captain of that ship is Nazi party member number 10. Being in on the ground floor, he has a free hand to build ships like Goering did with the Luftwaffe.

I doubt the could build a full carrier, but 1-2 CVL or a half dozen CVE is possible, in the right ATL.
 
Easy, one of Hitler buddies very early on is a Naval guy who was pro-carrier. The Germans had one aircraft (seaplane) carriers in WW1, so say the captain of that ship is Nazi party member number 10. Being in on the ground floor, he has a free hand to build ships like Goering did with the Luftwaffe.

I doubt the could build a full carrier, but 1-2 CVL or a half dozen CVE is possible, in the right ATL.

With the use of a deck park for a big mission like Scpapa Flow? Majorly risky I know in the North Sea or the Atlantic but I imagine your putative carrier Admiral is eager to impress the Fuhrer, and win brownie points over Goering.
Of course I suspect that if they did pull off the hypothetical Scapa Flow raid it would be a short lived triumph with the RN putting a massive effort into wiping them out and few places where they could effectively hide.
 

BlondieBC

Banned
With the use of a deck park for a big mission like Scpapa Flow? Majorly risky I know in the North Sea or the Atlantic but I imagine your putative carrier Admiral is eager to impress the Fuhrer, and win brownie points over Goering.
Of course I suspect that if they did pull off the hypothetical Scapa Flow raid it would be a short lived triumph with the RN putting a massive effort into wiping them out and few places where they could effectively hide.

Well, it did not say Scapa Flow specifically. It just as easily could be battle over Norway or a battle where the British fleet is in the North Sea. Once Germany has say 1 CVL (30 planes) and 5 CVE (20 planes each), they will eventually find battle. Or a nice battle north of Norway trying to shutdown convoys to Russia. And all this probably cost less than the Bismark, and would be just as effective in winning the war. ;)
 
While much is in the public domain regarding how the FAA was restricted in its development and procurement, the German Navy had an even larger problem with Goering. Even for a limited adjustment to possibly allow for an operational Graf Zeppelin or two, he would have to be somehow limited in his control of aviation assets or removed.
 
Flagrant misinterpretation of the term 'carrier':
Soviets overrun most of Germany (maybe they did better early on in Barbarossa, so they didn't have as far to go?), and establish a powerful Communist state in Germany. Though it is hobbled, it still has a reasonably strong navy. When 1977 rolls around and the Aix-La-Chapelle Crisis boils over into warfare between West and East, the German People's Navy sorties with the Soviet North Sea Fleet, and German and Soviet 'guided-missile carriers' (missile boats or maybe even missile cruisers) conduct the first major strikes against the Royal Navy and other Western naval elements.
 
Just to reference the 'British Introduce MACs Early On' Thread. Looking at the seaplane carrier and the 'postal' carrier it certainly seems the Germans could have found ways to work around the treaty restrictions if they had felt the need to do so, and more importantly my 'Eisbyr' isn't as crazy as I thought! :)
 
Top