AHC : French own Dover, but only Dover.

As it says on the tin, your challenge is to have France own Dover on the British Isles, but nothing else there.
Bonus points if :
-It becomes French during the HYW
-It remains French after the HYW
-It is reconquered by the English during religious turmoils akin to the Reformation.
or
-France uses it as a base to stage an invasion of the British Isles during the age of nationalism.
 
I doubt it could possibly happens... The French need a stronger navy than the English.
One way it will be to have it as part of a bigger inheritance wich fall to the King of France but its claimed and conquered by the King of England...
Or...the English King win the HYW but loose England after several generations. They keep Dover wich is used as base for invasions to recover the English throne.
 
If it used military it´s either going to end up with bigger French England of English Dover, I mean how can you have a stalemate there(there are only 100 meters high hills around the city).

The isle of Wight or the Channel Islands are a better target IMO.
 
If it used military it´s either going to end up with bigger French England of English Dover, I mean how can you have a stalemate there(there are only 100 meters high hills around the city).

The isle of Wight or the Channel Islands are a better target IMO.
The channel islands are traditionally part of Normandy. Jersey and Guernesey are the only things that allowed Elizabeth I to claim to be Queen of France.
Wight seems too out-of-the-way. I want a deliberate symmetric to Calais.
 
The channel islands are traditionally part of Normandy. Jersey and Guernesey are the only things that allowed Elizabeth I to claim to be Queen of France.
Wight seems too out-of-the-way. I want a deliberate symmetric to Calais.
Would that be for economic purposes or military? I could see it forming only in a divided England scenario but I´m not sure how you do that. I mean Calais didn´t survive long and was quite a burden given that you had to fortify it extensively and here you also have the restriction that Dover has to be a small exclave. Another problem is that there are way less economic reasons for France to go there.
 
Would that be for economic purposes or military? I could see it forming only in a divided England scenario but I´m not sure how you do that. I mean Calais didn´t survive long and was quite a burden given that you had to fortify it extensively and here you also have the restriction that Dover has to be a small exclave. Another problem is that there are way less economic reasons for France to go there.
While it is true, France has military reasons to want to keep Dover, since admittedly in the middle ages Dover was the logistical key to conquering anything in England.
 
While it is true, France has military reasons to want to keep Dover, since admittedly in the middle ages Dover was the logistical key to conquering anything in England.
The problem is not keeping it, but exactly keeping only it. Dover is not particularly defensible and controlling it would mean that France has the naval capability to support the fort there but not the capacity to conquer more and that would be weird.
 
The Spanish Armada plan actually works to the extent of getting an army into England, but before it can conquer England it has to be called back to the Continent for one or other of the emergencies that were always upsetting Felipe II's plans. However, the Spanish leave a garrison in Dover.

The failure to get rid of the Spanish bridgehead in Dover becomes a big rallying cry against the Stuarts. But the Spanish someone manage to hold the place against Cromwell's army, though this is almost ASB.

The Spanish then hand it over to Louis XIV and the French as part of the 1659 peace. The French hold onto Dover until the War of the Spanish Succession.
 

ben0628

Banned
Perhaps France does not have Naval superiority bunch managed to take the city via trickery. They then manage to only occupy it during war via smuggling supplies and running any blockades. Once peace is made, they go out of their way to fortify it and turn it into a super fortress that is well stocked with supplies.

Possible?
 
The problem is not keeping it, but exactly keeping only it. Dover is not particularly defensible and controlling it would mean that France has the naval capability to support the fort there but not the capacity to conquer more and that would be weird.

The problem is indeed keeping it.

Before the age of artillery, It was possible to keep it. In the age of artillery, It is as doomed as Calais was.

Gibraltar is an exception because the topography makes It far far far more easy to defend for a longer time (while today Gibraltar can be kept only because of Spain's goodwill and Britain's nuclear power).
 
Late 15th c. France focusing its efforts to swallow the Burgundian State, with happy mariage and intelligent management. A sizeable fleet and a longing interest in the North Sea and the Channel. After a victorious war with the English, Dover is kept as an advance watchtower (sold as the dowry of an english princess) while Gallia rules the sea. But in any war, Dover will fall quickly, why bother keeping it ?
 
The problem is indeed keeping it.

Before the age of artillery, It was possible to keep it. In the age of artillery, It is as doomed as Calais was.

Gibraltar is an exception because the topography makes It far far far more easy to defend for a longer time (while today Gibraltar can be kept only because of Spain's goodwill and Britain's nuclear power).
You could keep it if France conquered more of England but that´s not allowed, that what I meant with "you can keep it, but you can´t keep ONLY it".
 
Given that England had, and held, Calais for some time, I rather think that France could hold Dover.

The English navy was not the ocean dominating force it later became until at least Elizabeth, and not really then.

So France having naval parity (at least) with England is surely a doable thing.
 
The problem is indeed keeping it.

Before the age of artillery, It was possible to keep it. In the age of artillery, It is as doomed as Calais was.

Gibraltar is an exception because the topography makes It far far far more easy to defend for a longer time (while today Gibraltar can be kept only because of Spain's goodwill and Britain's nuclear power).
It isnt Spain's goodwill because they have no goodwill towards letting the British keep it. And it is equally not Britain's nukes as the UK has never threatened to blow up Madrid over Gibraltar, nor would they even use them if Spain did invade (though if I was PM during the 80s I would have nuked the PRC rather than agree to return Hong Kong). The reason Gibraltar is British is equal parts- Gibraltar doesnt want to leave! And Spain and the UK are Western democracies with rule of law.
 
It is easier for France to keep Kent, since it is much closer. Dover/Medieval Cornwall is more symmetrical to Normandy IMO. If France just kept Dover it would just piss off the English to no end.
 
France owning Dover is basically a free “reclaim core” casus belli, in the exact same way Calais was OTL. The only way the English kept Calais for 200 years was because the French were distracted by Burgundy/Hapsburg Netherlands. In the same way, the only way France could keep Dover is if England is fighting against... well, itself, obviously (Scotland is too far away, and not very threatening). As a bonus, if England is messy enough, this justifies France owning only Dover and not more, because they want to absolutely avoid stepping into the chaos.

So my suggestion would be: in the Civil war, the Royalists are somehow desperate enough to call for explicit French intervention. As a goodwill token, they authorize the French to take temporary control of the Dover docks. Just as the French army disembarks, some fanatic Parliamentary assassinates the King as a retaliation for this. The French army in Dover is just strong enough to help prolong the stalemate, but attacking London is out of the question (not enough Frenchmen in Dover, transferring more would be too risky with the Austrians close). Eventually Great Britain gets divided and Dover is kept by the French, who hang on by playing each party against the other.
 
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