AHC - Franz-Joseph, Kaiser of Grossdeutchland...

... And maybe other places too, 1849-1918.
Successful Hungarian independence means Austria gives up on them and decides to accept Germany? Not very likely, although possible. The rest of Germany accepting Hungary 'transleithania' is even less likely.

How are you going to get the Hapsburgs to give up on Hungary, then?
 
Successful Hungarian independence means Austria gives up on them and decides to accept Germany? Not very likely, although possible. The rest of Germany accepting Hungary 'transleithania' is even less likely.

How are you going to get the Hapsburgs to give up on Hungary, then?

Instead of being the Emperor of Austria and King of Hungary (and others) he can be the Emperor of Germany and the King of Hungary with two almost totally independent government
 
He accepts the crown the Frankfort Assembly offered him in 1848. Problem solved at one stroke.

Of course, this requires a rather different Franz-Josef; he understood that accepting a crown from a democratic assembly was tantamount to admitting that the will of a democratic assembly could trump the will of God.

Consider delaying his father's renunciation of the throne, or delaying word of it to the Frankfort Assembly somehow. The FA offers the Imperial crown of Germany to Franz Karl, the dimwit accepts, and when he dies Franz Josef adds it to his collection.
 
He accepts the crown the Frankfort Assembly offered him in 1848. Problem solved at one stroke.

Of course, this requires a rather different Franz-Josef; he understood that accepting a crown from a democratic assembly was tantamount to admitting that the will of a democratic assembly could trump the will of God.

Consider delaying his father's renunciation of the throne, or delaying word of it to the Frankfort Assembly somehow. The FA offers the Imperial crown of Germany to Franz Karl, the dimwit accepts, and when he dies Franz Josef adds it to his collection.

But the Grossdeutschland supporters only wanted the cisleithanian territories of austria (austria, not austriahungary, if you will) and no hapsburg was going to give up hungary without it being wrenched from their dying hands.
 
True, and something the grossdeutschland supporters, not Franz Josef, will have to live with.

Its not really something they can live with, unless they can make some kind of deal where the German lands and Hungarian lands are split with Maximilian gaining the Hungarian throne and Franz-Joseph getting the German one.
 
Is a loose personal union not possible? As in Franz Josef is Emperor of Germany and King of Hungary, but the two governments are completely seperate. Sort of a 19th century Commonwealth. Hungary would probably still be quite friendly to Germany, as they would definitely be close economic partners. It has much more to offer than Russia, IMO. Franz Josef may be able to gain Hungarian support by being supportive of Magyarization and centralization (bad for Croatia, ofc, but good for Hungary).

A second option would be mixing up the 1848 Revolutions a little bit more, and making the Hungarians more successful where they succeed in gaining independence. This could force Franz's hand towards accepting the German crown... maybe Austro-Russian relations are chillier and Tsar Nicholas does not offer troops to aid Austria? Or perhaps he could die and his successor Alexander II refuses to aid Austria.

With Franz Josef as Emperor of Germany, what would be the status of the Kingdom of Bohemia? Another constituent kingdom, or might it get some type of pseudo-Ausgelich down the line as the Czechs gain national consciousness?
 
With Franz Josef as Emperor of Germany, what would be the status of the Kingdom of Bohemia? Another constituent kingdom, or might it get some type of pseudo-Ausgelich down the line as the Czechs gain national consciousness?

This is always a question I wondered if Hungary does win independence/Austria becomes part of Germany in some form.
 
Hungary breaks away from the Hapsburgs in 1848, and greater Germany is unified.

Later Franz Joseph becomes the German Kaiser.
 
Wasn't it Friedrich Wilhelm IV who was offered the crown?

Yes, but there were divisions in the National Assembly. Aside from the many different factions, there was also a division that favored a Greater Germany that would see a union of the Austrian lands with Germany led by the Habsburgs, and the Lesser Germany that ultimately prevailed in 1871, which wished to exclude Austria. Friedrich Wilhelm IV was offered the crown, but Archduke Johann of Austria was Imperial Vicar.

One reason Franz Josef was probably not offered the crown IOTL was because of how quickly the Austrians rolled back the liberal reforms enacted early on in 1848 through military force, which probably influenced the Constitution of St. Paul's Church which gave the office of Emperor to the Kings of Prussia. Delegates were sent to Austria early on who were pretty appalled to see how the Habsburgs were rolling back the reforms.
 
My understanding is that the Grossdeutschesland solution was never a particularly serious proposal; To give you an idea, IIRC, there were something like all of 2 delegates from all of Austria.

The Frankfurt Constitution, now, claimed Bohemia and Austria for new Germany, but I have my doubts about whether it could have been enforced.

I'd like to think I'd know, as I just did my IB Extended Essay on it. But in truth, that just means I read some books and some 19th century documents.
 
My understanding is that the Grossdeutschesland solution was never a particularly serious proposal; To give you an idea, IIRC, there were something like all of 2 delegates from all of Austria.

The Frankfurt Constitution, now, claimed Bohemia and Austria for new Germany, but I have my doubts about whether it could have been enforced.

I'd like to think I'd know, as I just did my IB Extended Essay on it. But in truth, that just means I read some books and some 19th century documents.
Umm... No, I don't have a list or anything, but there were more delegates than that just from Bohemia.

Aside from the unreality of expecting Austria to dump Hungary, it was perfectly serious. IMO, it probably would have been the choice if Austria had been silly enough to accept. OTOH, there were many, often northern Protestants, who preferred a Prussian based Kleindeutschland Loesung from the beginning.

OT3H, places like Bavaria REALLY didn't like the idea of a Prussia dominated Reich.
 
Umm... No, I don't have a list or anything, but there were more delegates than that just from Bohemia.

Aside from the unreality of expecting Austria to dump Hungary, it was perfectly serious. IMO, it probably would have been the choice if Austria had been silly enough to accept. OTOH, there were many, often northern Protestants, who preferred a Prussian based Kleindeutschland Loesung from the beginning.

OT3H, places like Bavaria REALLY didn't like the idea of a Prussia dominated Reich.

Egh, I worded my original quote badly. I was thinking of from 'Austria proper.' It might still be more though, I only read it while flipping through a book.
 
Top