AHC: Franco-German Union

Reconciliation yes fusion of the two nation no.
No. Occasionally there were plans to create a confederation between France and Germany (last time in 2002), but they were never completed. If such a confederation (which could have included the BeNeLux) had become reality, it would have suffered the fate of all confederations: breaking apart or growing closer.
 

Eurofed

Banned
No. Occasionally there were plans to create a confederation between France and Germany (last time in 2002), but they were never completed. If such a confederation (which could have included the BeNeLux) had become reality, it would have suffered the fate of all confederations: breaking apart or growing closer.

Hence, if it succeeds, we are back to the default case: federalization of the EU core, not a Franco-German solo thing. Spaniards and Italians are guaranteed to join such a confederation from day one, since they are even more Europhile than French and Germans. And there is no could, it would necessarily include Benelux in any plausible case.
 
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A full blown union between France and Germany is borderline ASB with a point of divergence during the late 20th century. While there have been semi serious proposals made by politicians including Kohl himself, it would be frown with huge issues and would more importantly be massively rejected by the electorates in France and Germany.

The last thing Germany and Germans would want after paying for their own reunification would be to pay the sheenanigans of French farmers, civil servants and so on.

The European project has never really been massively popular in France outside of the elites, especially the political side of things. You can also definitely expect history and France and Germany past to come in and take part in any debate on a potential Franco-German union. I suspect the idea would fail badly in a referendum, outside perhaps of borders areas.

Organising a Franco-German Union would be no easy task too. Extending the Lander system to the French regions, is not an option as it would require massive transfers of powers to be done in a very short period of time. A significant amount of pre-existing French institutions would have to be maintained with clear power prerogatives, so as to make the Union accepted by the wider population. .
The social security systems would have to be completely merged as well, something which would in itself create huge issues due to their differences.
While it is not impossible to do so, it would be extremely difficult especially as said Franco-German Union would not make any sense at all on a strategic basis. Germany interests lie in central Europe as it is her own natural area of expansion. While France interests are divided between Europe and the remainder of this great big world. This basic fact means that France would not gain anything at all from a Union with Germany. Some parts of France like Alsace would gain big, but the entire Atlantic facade of France would lose big as it would become a fringe territory, likely ignored by the rest. Don't forgert that there are 60 million Frenchmen and 80 million Germans, this basic fact alone means that Germany would dominate said Union.
 
Hence, if it succeeds, we are back to the default case: federalization of the EU core, not a Franco-German solo thing. Spaniards and Italians are guaranteed to join such a confederation from day one, since they are even more Europhile than French and Germans. And there is no could, it would necessarily include Benelux in any plausible case.

Why do you always take your desires for realities Eurofed?
 

Eurofed

Banned
Why do you always take your desires for realities Eurofed?

It may or may not happen, but if it happens at all using the premises of the last 60 years, it needs to happen in a certain way. Anything less than the "Inner Eight" is ASBish if we use post-1963 PoDs. My desires certainly go towards it happening, the sooner the better, but I challenge you finding anyplace in this thread where I say it is necessarily going to happen.

Can't we have a civil debate without gratuitous personal attacks, please ? :mad::(
 
It may or may not happen, but if it happens at all using the premises of the last 60 years, it needs to happen in a certain way. Anything less than the "Inner Eight" is ASBish if we use post-1963 PoDs. My desires certainly go towards it happening, the sooner the better, but I challenge you finding anyplace in this thread where I say it is necessarily going to happen.

Can't we have a civil debate without gratuitous personal attacks, please ? :mad::(

Sorry if you took my sentence in the wrong way Eurofed ;), I was teasing not attacking.

I must however admit that I have noticed in the way you post, a certain passionate tendency to favour certain outcomes as opposed to others, sometimes while being slightly blind to the realities on the ground. Said outcomes involve a near federal European Union, with Greater Italy and Greater Germany as core constituent partners.
Nothing wrong with this of course, but it is something that I have noticed shall we say? Have you thought about perhaps writing a book on this?
 
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