AHC: Franco-Belgian union, after 1816

That depends on your PoD.

If it's Napoleon Wins at waterloo; Then, yes, probably.

If it's later than that, you'd need to have Uk Colapse.

OTOH, it may happen in our TL in the near future, at least for Wallonia, if Flanders continues it's secession tendencies.
 
Annexed by Fascist France after the victory of the Polish-Italian-French alliance against Communist Germany.

Bruce
 
Napoleon

was offered France's 'natural boundaries' (the Rhine and the Alps) as a peace settlement - he refused it then lost the war.

All that needs to happen for this to occur is for him to 'forsee' the true future.

If he had won at Waterloo then he would have been defeated by the remaining Anglo-Prussian combined with the rapidly advancing Austrian and Russian armies.

regards
Phil
 
Maybe Lloyd George and Wilson decide to let Clemenceau do whatever he wants at Versailles? Oh, wait, they did anyway:p
 

raharris1973

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Waterloo is too early, its before 1816

Plus, what's the guarantee he wouldn't have been beaten back down?

After that, what about making it happening diplomatically? Could a Frenchman with the savvy of a Bismarck have done it?
 
Belgium never secedes from the Netherlands. The initial revolt in Brussels is put down a couple days after it starts. The Dutch are big enough to try to stay in the game as a big player, so they buddy up to Prussia during the course of its expansion. The German unification diverges when the French manage to squeak a victory in 1870. That leaves them as the last obstacle to German unification.

Bavaria, Wurtemburg, and Baden become dependent allies of France. The Franco-Russian Entente still forms. France's better position and increased stability mean it can invest a lot more in building up Russia. Russia was already starting on an exponential growth curve in 1914, in this TL a Great War doesn't come till 1919.

France and Russia are vastly stronger, but Britain stays neutral and Italy and the Netherlands take the side of the Central Powers. On the plus side, since the British haven't switched positions on the Ottomans (from protecting them from Russia to offering them to Russia), the Turks stay neutral as well.

France overruns Wallonia and much of Prussia west of the Rhine. The Prussians and Austrians invade the south German states from three sides. Trenchlines stretch along the Rhine, through southern Germany, and right against the Italian-French border (the Italians still can't fight in this timeline). The Russians sweep repeatedly into East Prussia and Galicia, consistently outmanouvered, but pressing forward by sheer weight of numbers and a much better infrastructure for a war than in OTL. The battles in East Prussia and Poland aren't quite as disastrous for Russia.

Eventually the Eastern Front becomes almost as stable as OTL's Western Front. The Central Powers make grinding progress into south Germany because of its relatively extended position. France inches into Flanders. Italy mounts a glorious series of offensives that lose it several miles. Prussian and Dutch engineers put out the first panzers in the spring of 1921, France has some that fall. Russia mass produces them and puts them out in droves starting summer 1922. Tank battalions edge their way over the Carpathians and reach the outskirts of Danzig. Romania, Serbia, and Montenegro declare for the Entente. Last ditch Western offensive by Central Powers is rushed and desperate - what's left of Wurtemburg and most of Baden fall, but the attackers are spent. Italy collapses, then Austria-Hungary, then Prussia.

Britain intervenes to prevent too much landgrabbing, but there's little they can do. The threat of war is less than impressive given the state of things on the continent. France annexes OTL Belgium and Luxembourg, half of Prussia-west-of-the-Rhine, plus most of the colonies of Italy and Prussia. Russia takes East and West Prussia (forcing a name change to Brandenburg), Posen, and Galicia. Serbia and Montenegro split OTL Yugoslavia. Rumania gets Transylvania. Independent Hannover and Hungary.

There ya go. With the added bonus that the future of this TL would be very interesting (in the Chinese sense).
 
philjd said:
was offered France's 'natural boundaries' (the Rhine and the Alps) as a peace settlement - he refused it then lost the war.

True.


philjd said:
If he had won at Waterloo then he would have been defeated by the remaining Anglo-Prussian combined with the rapidly advancing Austrian and Russian armies.

regards
Phil

I know that's the common wisdom in most of the englissh speaking world. I happen to strongly disagree with it.

If the PoD is a crushing Victory at waterloo, then Prussia is out forever. A second consequence is the fall of the british government, so Uk will keep it's troops in Canada and stop subsidysing anti-french alliances and french Bourbon kings and assorted aristocrats. Russian troops were still several month away by that time, advancing slowly and had a BIG command problem.

That leaves Austria to face a Victorious Napoleon, who is concentrating his troops again, alone ( discounting the Spanish ). Problem is the Austrian emperor was aware that the army he fielded was the last army he could assemble in this generation ( just like the french one ) and that to lose it would mean to lose the empire. So he had instructed his generals to take no risks. Not the best situation to be facing Napoleon backed by confident troops. And austria had a trump card in the diplomatic game, in the physical possesion of the prince of Rome. So Austria will deal. At this time, the Csar will also.

Therefore, there is a good likehood, IMO, that a crushing victory at Waterloo leaves Napoleon in charge in France. This is followed by a flury of diplomatic activities, which lead to the formal annexion ( and recognision thereof by all powers ) of Belgium into France in Early 1817. QED
 
Maybe we could have a scenario, possibly relating to Napoleon, whereby the larger powers of Europe gobble up the smaller states of the former HRE?
 
Other possible POD:

Belgian Revolution takes place in 1830 as OTL, just as July Revolution in France.

When the Belgian Provisional Governement proclaims independence on October 4, the Powers assemble in London as per OTL, but the agenda of Britain differs somewhat from OTL. Basically, William I had been less clumsy in his diplomacy towards the UK in the period 1815-1830, so that the UK Governmentsupports a solution whereby Belgium and the Netherlands stay in union, with some increased autonomy for each part.

That would imply clashes between the French and the Brits in London, which lead to gridlock. The Belgian Government, who has meanwhile held elections to assemble the National Congress, gets tired of not getting international recognition. End of 1830 (a slight twist of OTL), the Belgian representatives in London announce that the Congress will proclaim the reunion to France if no recognition comes. The Brits are upset, but do not have the means yet to intervene, while the Dutch aren't quite reday yet. They stil speed up the reorganization of their army, and everybody is trying to gain time. Eventually, in the Spring of 1831, the Dutch attack Belgium, and British Marines occupy Antwerp and Ostend. The national Congress proclaims reunion to France, the French Army enters Belgium (in fact, many units had been infiltrated discreetly in the previous months), defeats the Dutch and lays siege to Antwerp and Ostend...

What happens next?
 

raharris1973

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the gold goes to admiral matt,

the silver to benedict, and the bronze to fhaessig. My scoring was based in large part on the novelty and detail of their respective scenarios.
 
Like Benedict XVII only less complicated.

The Dutch start their military campagn, and are as succesfull as in OTL, Belgian revolutionair armies are routed or defeated, only this time they have mor diplomatic support from other Great Powers, UK and or Prusia, who forsee too much influence of France.
Under presure of the Great Poewrs France and the Dutch agree a compromise; the kingdom of the Netherlands remain the provinces of Flandres, Brabant and Limburg.
The French will get the provinces Henegouwen, Namour and Luxembourg (the entire province) will be independent but in a personal Union of the House of Orange Nassau ( the king of the Netherlands)
 
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