AHC: France and Poland partitions HRE/Germany

The challenge is, create a set of circumstances that would make HRE/Germany go the way of Poland-Lithuania OTL.

Go!
 
The challenge is, create a set of circumstances that would make HRE/Germany go the way of Poland-Lithuania OTL.

Go!

I don't think France or Poland would want to absorb that many Germans. Poland would want Silesia and Prussia, France maybe the Rhineland. Once they have their natural borders, they'd probably just vassalize the remaining territory, and make sure they don't gain too much power again.

Didn't Bavaria have good relations with Poland and France? Bavaria would probably be the benefactor of the rump HRE lands.
 
Originally posted by M. Adolphe Thiers
I don't think France or Poland would want to absorb that many Germans. Poland would want Silesia and Prussia, France maybe the Rhineland. Once they have their natural borders, they'd probably just vassalize the remaining territory, and make sure they don't gain too much power again.

Poland would also want Pomerania with Stettin/Szczecin, possibly also Wolgast / Wołogoszcz. And the New March (Neumark). But generally, I agree with above.
But, just for fun, when could POD be? Mediveal? XVI-XVIII century?
 
Double bash during the Napoleonic wars?

After that it would be too hard to hold as nationalism arrives on the scene. Before that I'm not sure France is strong enough to conquer and resist the inevitable backlash. Plus with Napoleon, it would make sense to recreate a very strong Poland out of it and ally itself with Bavaria to have a stronghold on Germany
 
The challenge is, create a set of circumstances that would make HRE/Germany go the way of Poland-Lithuania OTL.

Go!

According to Wikipedia, the Polish-Lithuanian population in 1772 was about 14 million. According to the same source, the HRE's population in 1786 was 26 million (France's population was similar).

A partition of the HRE would leave either power with a huge minority of Germans--in Poland's case, Lutheran ones. That is a giant headache in the making.

For this to be successful, you'd want to boost the Polish-Lithuanian population while culling the German one greatly. Something on the scale of the 30 Years War in the eighteenth century ought to do the latter. As to the former, you'd want to avoid the Deluge and introduce potatoes to Poland early.

While you're avoiding the Deluge, you should have Poland formally annex Prussia.
 
Well, there would have to be no elective monarchy in PL, so we'll say Sigismund Jagiellion was successful. Have the Franco Ottoman alliance sty in place, and have them both beat the shit out of the HRE for a while. It would help if France went Protestant. After a series of wars, France, PL, and the Ottomans partition the HRE. France gets the Rhineland, Poland gets Prussia, and the Ottomans get Austria. There are also buffer princes in between.
 
It would be a lot easier if you get the other neighbors to help, ie, have a strong Scandinavia (Denmark or Sweden alone is probably not strong enough) help absorb North-Central Germany.
 
The EU/CK is strong in this thread. But as others have said, population is a problem here. Maybe a combination of more war and more plague/famine?
 
Well, there would have to be no elective monarchy in PL, so we'll say Sigismund Jagiellion was successful.

If you want stronger PLC have Jadwiga survive her first child, and then give birth to a couple of sons. Thus you should avoid many of the priviledges weakening the royal power
 
If you want stronger PLC have Jadwiga survive her first child, and then give birth to a couple of sons. Thus you should avoid many of the priviledges weakening the royal power

Yeah, that's true I suppose. The problem is that a POD that far back could butterfly the Turks being so successful, or the French for that matter.
 
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