AHC: Find a way to make bayonets useful in modern combat

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Are they heavily used in modern combat?

They are not in “widespread use” by any definition of the term. They’ve seen action in a handful of engagements out of tens of thousands of total engagements.

Define "heavy" and "widespread" while you may not see the emphasis on company and battalion level close combat that was seen prior to WWI bayonets remain a standard peice of equipment in modern infantry formations for good reason. Infact I'd wager that knives/bayonets get used more often than hand grenades.
 
Define "heavy" and "widespread" while you may not see the emphasis on company and battalion level close combat that was seen prior to WWI bayonets remain a standard peice of equipment in modern infantry formations for good reason. Infact I'd wager that knives/bayonets get used more often than hand grenades.

they are not. Its a rather shitty knife that there are better alternatives to and while most armies have them they are often treated as a joke. Hand grenades on the other hand feature heavily in most standard infantryman drills.

There just is no way to make them viable weapons for most situations. Even with the advent of body armor the answer will be new ammo etc. Because guns are vastly superior in a vast number of situations.

we mostly left them back at base. one less thing to hang on the vest.
 
There just is no way to make them viable weapons for most situations. Even with the advent of body armor the answer will be new ammo etc. Because guns are vastly superior in a vast number of situations.

...and guided missiles are vastly superior to guns, yet poor bloody infantry remain relevant in a world of tanks, air-strikes, and cyber-attacks.

By the same token, bayonets don't need to be viable weapons for most situations. They merely need to be viable in a situation that a military has a reasonable expectation of finding themselves in. If they're significantly cheaper the next best alternative, that's even better. Fact of the matter is that so long as close combat remains relevant, so to will bayonets, because after 3000 years the old "pointy bit of metal on the end of a stick" remains one of the most effective hand-to-hand weapons ever devised by man.

we mostly left them back at base. one less thing to hang on the vest.

Yet you carried frags? I don't believe you.
 

WILDGEESE

Gone Fishin'
Bayonet are standard issue in a lot of army, maybe all.
Clearly training with them is no longer a priority but it still exist to create some "warrior spirit".
In my case bayonet training was combined with hand to hand training.

And remember, if you stick your enemy to a wall...:

MEEEDDDDIIIICCCC!!!!
 

WILDGEESE

Gone Fishin'
Personal force shields are discovered that stop high speed projectiles
176022-dune-shield-practice.gif

The best Totem pole ever!
 
...and guided missiles are vastly superior to guns, yet poor bloody infantry remain relevant in a world of tanks, air-strikes, and cyber-attacks.

By the same token, bayonets don't need to be viable weapons for most situations. They merely need to be viable in a situation that a military has a reasonable expectation of finding themselves in. If they're significantly cheaper the next best alternative, that's even better. Fact of the matter is that so long as close combat remains relevant, so to will bayonets, because after 3000 years the old "pointy bit of metal on the end of a stick" remains one of the most effective hand-to-hand weapons ever devised by man.



Yet you carried frags? I don't believe you.

https://www.quora.com/Does-the-military-still-use-bayonets-1

Look at all those posts by veterans and you will find what @Orcbuster said much more believable.
 
Yet you carried frags? I don't believe you.

Well shock grenades (offensive) much more than frags (defensive). only ever handled live frags on 2 occasions but you train with dummies in most drills. one of the most basic drills you do as infantry (and one of the more common ones) is the take foxhole/trench/entrenched position drill, basically the closest you get to the whole mount bayonet scenario and what you do is not to run at a guy to stab him but throw a shock and then move up and firing single shots at the position continuously while the guy is (hopefully) unconscious or otherwise unable to fire back and also hopefully finishing him off in the process. frags are not recommended as you're as likely to kill yourself in that scenario and only want to use them when you're safely behind something.

Never did any bayonet drills, only hand to hand with combat gear (which is an art unto itself, also we didn't do much of that either tbh)

My point is, even up at point blank a gun of some sort is vastly superior and that fact has been proven going as far back as wwI

guided missile would be a nice analogy if it wasn't for the fact that it hasn't replaced the gun in the same way that the gun has completely replaced the spear. Not gonna touch that piece of warped logic otherwise.
 
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Make it so automatic weapons are not so prominent in warfare. In World War II, this is what effectively made the banzai charge a death sentence. It worked in China against bolt-action rifles, but against US machine guns, it was World War I all over again. In fact, banzai charges had been rendered pointless and outdated since the Russo-Japanese War. A eyewitness described a bayonet charge by the Japanese at the Siege of Port Arthur in the following manner.

"A thick, unbroken mass of corpses covered the cold earth like a coverlet."
 
Urban combat or if trench combat makes a comeback we can have more use of bayonet
Can we have a retractable blade ? Or is that already widespread?

Urban combat and fighting close up in entrenched positions is still very much in vogue. Turns out semi auto carbines and rifles (because you don't ever really need to flip to full auto) are pretty great for it. Look at footage from urban combat in fallujah or syria or any other conflict where fighting does get up close and personal and you'll note a distinct lack of blades of any sort compared to guns.
 
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The bayonet began as a spear alternative i.e. converted the musket into a short pike. With the socket bayonet it also then removed the need for a side arm sword too. When it shortened it replaced the need for a knife as well.

Even going back to the heyday of the bayonet it's principal task was to intimidate. A bayonet charge is intended to frighten the enemy into running away and the records of the proportions of bayonet deaths and injuries show that they were out ranked by artillery and ball even then.

In that role the bayonet can be useful in riot control and prisoner control. A less lethal weapon than ball and one which can be displayed. 'Fix bayonets' in such circumstances includes flourishing the bayonet so that the opposition can see the intent.

In the old days they were long, on long rifles, to defend against cavalry up there on a horse. When magazine rifles thwarted cavalry charges the short rifle took over with a shorter knife bayonet but one can go too far. The SMLE 'pig sticker' was an efficient killing bayonet but the short spike failed to intimidate and was replaced by a knife bayonet that could be seen.

Lastly, one never runs out of bayonet. It is a sidearm. The descendent of the pre bayonet sword and is a weapon of the last resort in battle. You need a knife anyway for assorted daily tasks so it may as well be a bayonet. Without a bayonet controlling riots and guarding prisoners it can far too easily lead to deadly shootings when young frightened soldiers feel under threat from a mob. It is more selective than ball which is less precise under stress and over penetrates. The bayonet wielder can select individual targets out of a group. Psychologically it frightens because the threat is personal not general.

Teaching bayonet fighting is less about technique than about teaching the necessity of combining it with visible aggression. 'Crossing bayonets' rarely ever happened and you use a bayonet because you have to and it can only be effective in directly attacking the enemy. Aggression is all. Eventually boots have to go on the ground and action devolves to 'pointy stick' distance. Ball is good, HE etc. is better but the bayonet is always at hand when fixed. Not your first choice is always the last.
 
Never did any bayonet drills, only hand to hand with combat gear

Who did you serve with, if you don't mind me asking?

I was only Royal Signals and I've done bayonet training quite a few times and fixed bayonets once for real (although in the end it wasn't needed so no exciting stories to go with it).
 
Who did you serve with, if you don't mind me asking?

I was only Royal Signals and I've done bayonet training quite a few times and fixed bayonets once for real (although in the end it wasn't needed so no exciting stories to go with it).

Norwegian army. 2.bn. Rifleman.
 
During the LA riots a friend of mine in the Ca. National guard witnessed a single squad clear a park and adjacent street of 300+ persons with a showy brandishing of bayonets. The crowd ran & no blood was spilled.
 
Depends what service you're in. The Marine Corps still issues them and trains with them. I've heard though that the Army no longer conducts bayonet drill, not sure if they've stopped issuing them
I had one issued in 2000 (we never trained with them). It wouldn't surprise me if they were still in stock.
 
The Bayonet just seems to be one of those things that appears to be obsolete until the moment you need it.
 
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The Australians fixed bayonets on a couple of occasions in Vietnam, you can keep down when the bullets are flying but it's not so easy to take cover from a bunch of charging maniacs with a foot of steel attached to a rifle. The impact is less about the stabbing and more about the morale impact, once word gets around about a bayonet charge then enemy will get the message that our blokes are playing for keeps.
 
Bayonets are still issued and still used in modern combat. But if you want to look at the history of bayonets, they were always more of a psychological weapon than an actual one. A bayonet charge would often break the morale of the opposing force and cause them to fall back, or even flee, but rarely did bayonets inflict actual wounds. The medical reports of the 18th and 19th Centuries put bayonet wounds at 1 or 2%. The threat of them was enough.
 
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