With a PoD from 1901, make the USA become a Fascist Nation during the interwar period, extra points if it is a model that can survive until this day. How would it function ? Who would lead it ? How would it affect WWII ? What about the Cold War ?
AHC: Fascist Regime in America
- Thread starter Antonio the Komnenoi
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- fascist america
America is semi imperialost/fascist in some to other ways.. Its obviously much more capitalist, but aprthiad, nationalism, corporate-government relationships And other factors made it quasi fascist for the longest time. Great we didn't have the traditional strongman gig.. We have congress, no we didn't have the kgb or stasi ... We have, fbi under hoover, cia, nsa
So traditional fascism.. Eh no. American branded . Yup and in many ways its alive and well.. Traditional fascism wouldn't work here just like our government doesn't work in say Afghanistan. Another example would be the continued polarization of politics, the exaggerated blaming and so forth, the omni present radicalization of patriotism and support the troops at every event ad nauseum, flags flags, more flags!
Increased state survalience that even the kgb would be impressed by.
All the bits are there, only thing not pushing it off the cliff is a yellow parchment that for its flaws is still honored in the gentlemen agreement of politics
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Zwinglian
Banned
I don’t think any of them could have. Wilson, Long, and Roosevelt weren’t fascists, any military coup would fail because they rely on taking over the majority of territory very quickly which isn’t very feasible in a country as big as America. Charles Coughlin was a catholic and 1928 shows Catholics couldn’t win elections in the era, and Pelley was absolutely nuts
Besides that, long, or Coughlin would be best bets but they are still far out bets. Mac wasn't fascist or communist, dilousions of grandiiur, but he fought and believed in things. Dictate and Regent maybe, but eh.. No.
So that books things down to say a dick Cheney type megalomaniac or . Uh... ... Yeah.. Not going there but the personality type fits along with the but I'm doing this for your own good bit.
Honestly the fringe whack jobs are usually kept from any real power in America, American politics doesn't like boat rockers.
Now say you have a great depression that is worse, or make a conglomerate of mlk, civil rights riots gone crazy, rfk, Watergate the oil crisis and say one of the Arab wars and Vietnam go very sour resulting in another depression level event and considering the internal issues of the time you could potentially get someone to step up dressed in red white and blue trying to make America great again if you only give them all the power to fix it.
Again biggest issue, Americans actualky belive in the constitution even if the interpretation is slightly off between folks. So you will need a conapiricy of events
So that books things down to say a dick Cheney type megalomaniac or . Uh... ... Yeah.. Not going there but the personality type fits along with the but I'm doing this for your own good bit.
Honestly the fringe whack jobs are usually kept from any real power in America, American politics doesn't like boat rockers.
Now say you have a great depression that is worse, or make a conglomerate of mlk, civil rights riots gone crazy, rfk, Watergate the oil crisis and say one of the Arab wars and Vietnam go very sour resulting in another depression level event and considering the internal issues of the time you could potentially get someone to step up dressed in red white and blue trying to make America great again if you only give them all the power to fix it.
Again biggest issue, Americans actualky belive in the constitution even if the interpretation is slightly off between folks. So you will need a conapiricy of events
About Wilson, he is considered a Proto-Fascist. Long and Roosevelt weren't fascist, but they had Authoritarian tendencies, especially Long:
Also adding about the non-Fascists of the List, this is assuming they were Fascist in this Challenge TL.
Look how it works now
You dehumanise people with rhetoric, you change the meaning of words, you enforce the new meaning
You push for new laws which sound like a good idea but whose meaning you will then warp
You glorify the military, you hug the flag, you demonise the free press
You support corporations and especially media which will suck your toes
You go all "America" and abrogate treaties, break international laws, and nobody can do anything about it
You build a loyalist base by sacking anyone who is a professional and not a sucker upper
You pack the supreme court with people who have pledged personal loyalty
You probably have a secret book of bad things on your own side so as to get them to do what you want
You dehumanise people with rhetoric, you change the meaning of words, you enforce the new meaning
You push for new laws which sound like a good idea but whose meaning you will then warp
You glorify the military, you hug the flag, you demonise the free press
You support corporations and especially media which will suck your toes
You go all "America" and abrogate treaties, break international laws, and nobody can do anything about it
You build a loyalist base by sacking anyone who is a professional and not a sucker upper
You pack the supreme court with people who have pledged personal loyalty
You probably have a secret book of bad things on your own side so as to get them to do what you want
Zwinglian
Banned
No fascist is gonna get anywhere with pro capitalist rhetoric. Corporatism isn’t referring to corporations
Um, its a 2-way street, or did you not notice Nazi Germany? You get them on board and they support you, you control what they make and they make money.
Why not capitalism isn't anti fascist I would actually say its state sponsored, but a very very important part of things. State run could just mean more paperwork and permits.. Money is Money and in every system you need it, and governments that print it and assign it also control it, tax it, restrict it, set benchmarks, and want as much of it back for them and their Cronies as much as possible.
Buy the politicians. Keep more money.
It's not the US wouldn't nationalize things if needed.
Chat is right down at the bottom of the list of Forums.
That is where current political screeds go.
Oh ok
I will leave this discussion
I thought I was tying things in well between the USA and fascist regimes
There was a great post be @Emperor Julian that offered a plausible and somewhat frightening scenario for a Fascist America:
This reads like a conservative's worst straw man of a progressive. Racism =/= fascism, fascism isn't just anything the accuser of fascism thinks is bad or too authoritarian. Were most western European countries fascist before 1914? French patriots were obsessed with retaking Alsace Lorraine, and German politics were pretty polarized between the conservative Junkers and the SPD. The British Empire certainly loved to talk about planting their Union Jack in every patch of dirt on earth they could get their hands on.
I don't really know what a fascist US would want to do. Fascism has generally taken power in revisionist powers trying to destroy the current order and reshape things in their image. The US has the most hegemonic control of its immediate neighborhood of any great power.
An American fascist regime would be longer-lasting than other fascisms if it doesn't see an imminent need for a war of conquest. It would push for economic autarchy of its sphere of influence and it would be a horrible place to be black, Mormon, Jewish, or Catholic, but it couldn't gain much by annexing new territory.
This could lead to a long, drawn-out war of independence in the Philippines if the US digs its heels in and refuses to leave, or some kind of communist insurgency if it tries to micromanage central america and exploit it for every last penny.
Mexico and Central America would be US economic satellites anyway, and its hard to make the case for lebensraum when you control most of a continent's and already have agricultural and energy self-sufficiency. A fascist US is kind of like a fascist British Empire: it would be a conservative status quo power rather than a revisionist upstart trying to reorient the world around it like Germany or Japan.
An American fascist regime would be longer-lasting than other fascisms if it doesn't see an imminent need for a war of conquest. It would push for economic autarchy of its sphere of influence and it would be a horrible place to be black, Mormon, Jewish, or Catholic, but it couldn't gain much by annexing new territory.
This could lead to a long, drawn-out war of independence in the Philippines if the US digs its heels in and refuses to leave, or some kind of communist insurgency if it tries to micromanage central america and exploit it for every last penny.
Mexico and Central America would be US economic satellites anyway, and its hard to make the case for lebensraum when you control most of a continent's and already have agricultural and energy self-sufficiency. A fascist US is kind of like a fascist British Empire: it would be a conservative status quo power rather than a revisionist upstart trying to reorient the world around it like Germany or Japan.
If the Business Plot was real, and Im not saying it was or wasn't, it would have the most likely candidate to bring about Fascist America.