AHC: Explicitly Fascist Govt Arises in Post-'45 Europe

Uhura's Mazda · Nov 18, 2015

Post WWII, how can the reviled doctrine of fascism (in whatever interpretation you like) take power by democratic or non-democratic means in a European country?

Spain and Portugal were essentially fascist for a long time after the Fuhrerbunker, of course, but they had become so beforehand, so they don't count here. Bonus points if an Allied nation goes fascist.

Please keep the 'EVIL Tories/Orban/International Monetary Fund/Rothschild-lizard-people are NAZIS lol' to a minimum, if possible.

celt · Nov 18, 2015

Spain and Portugal were not essentially fascist they were authoritarian right wing regimes, yes Spain did have the Falange party, but they were more of just a rubberstamp for the regime. I am finding hard to think of anywhere fascism could have taken hold.

Maeglin · Nov 18, 2015

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_military_junta_of_1967–74

zoomar · Nov 18, 2015

Regarding Greece, a military junta does not equal "fascist regime" neither does an unelected authoritarian regime equal fascism. By that standard, the military junta that took power in "communist" Poland to silence Solidarity and stave off outright Soviet invasion would count as fascist.

I think it would be almost impossible for an avowedly fascist regime to take power anywhere in Europe during the Cold War...Hitler and his ilk made this impossible and it simply wouldn't be allowed by the USSR and the USA in their respective alliances. The best chance for the rise of a truly fascist regime in Europe is after the Cold War in the former Soviet block. Few of these nations have a long history of democratic rule and many are beset with the kind of nationalist and xenophobic urges that lend themselves to true fascism. One might say that Putin's Russia is proto-fascist as well as Ukraine, Belarus, and many other former SSRs. Places like Hungary, the Baltics, or Romania might have similar popular urges toward xenophobic nationalism, but as long as they remain in NATO or the EU outside forces will keep this in check.

Booster Gold · Nov 18, 2015

Jobbik builds on their success in 2010 and instead of losing ground, they become the largest party in the Hungarian government in the 2014 elections.

Possible POD would be a Grexit in late 2013 causing chaos and a new financial crisis.

Maeglin · Nov 18, 2015

zoomar said:
Regarding Greece, a military junta does not equal "fascist regime" neither does an unelected authoritarian regime equal fascism. By that standard, the military junta that took power in "communist" Poland to silence Solidarity and stave off outright Soviet invasion would count as fascist.

The OP treats "right-wing authoritarian regime" (Franco, Salazar) as sufficiently fascist for the purpose of the thread - they're being omitted on the grounds of being pre-existing, not that they weren't technically fascist. And Greece's Golden Dawn Party, generally considered to be fascist, started out as a "we miss the junta" movement - while fascism is a really awkward term to define, at some point you've got to say that if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, let's call it a duck. A right-wing authoritarian regime that champions the "nation" and goes around shooting and torturing suspected communists? That's close enough here.

(We can distinguish Poland on economic grounds).

ThePest179 · Nov 18, 2015

Uhura's Mazda said:
Post WWII, how can the reviled doctrine of fascism (in whatever interpretation you like) take power by democratic or non-democratic means in a European country?

Greece if GD ever took/takes power there. You'd need a much more severe crisis than OTL's recession to do it though.

Uhura's Mazda · Nov 18, 2015

Maeglin said:
The OP treats "right-wing authoritarian regime" (Franco, Salazar) as sufficiently fascist for the purpose of the thread - they're being omitted on the grounds of being pre-existing, not that they weren't technically fascist. And Greece's Golden Dawn Party, generally considered to be fascist, started out as a "we miss the junta" movement - while fascism is a really awkward term to define, at some point you've got to say that if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, let's call it a duck. A right-wing authoritarian regime that champions the "nation" and goes around shooting and torturing suspected communists? That's close enough here.

(We can distinguish Poland on economic grounds).

I did ask for explicitly fascist regimes, so that would require the junta, Jobbik and GD to actually call themselves fascists. Would that be possible?

Booster Gold · Nov 18, 2015

Uhura's Mazda said:
I did ask for explicitly fascist regimes, so that would require the junta, Jobbik and GD to actually call themselves fascists. Would that be possible?

I shouldn't think so. No more than they would call themselves racists despite the fact that they, ya know, are.

Neoteros · Nov 18, 2015

The PCI wins the [insert any year from 1948 to 1991 here] elections in Italy, the CIA and the United States intervene, and an authoritarian right wing regime, fascist in all but name, is put in charge of the country. Or, the 1964 Piano Solo is successful, and Italy becomes a military dictatorship headed by Giovanni De Lorenzo.

Tom Colton · Nov 18, 2015

Floyd Pinkerton and the Hammer Movement overthrows the British government in 1982?

Uhura's Mazda · Nov 18, 2015

Moe Satyr said:
The PCI wins the [insert any year from 1948 to 1991 here] elections in Italy, the CIA and the United States intervene, and an authoritarian right wing regime, fascist in all but name, is put in charge of the country. Or, the 1964 Piano Solo is successful, and Italy becomes a military dictatorship headed by Giovanni De Lorenzo.

Cool! Do you think the Borghese plot had any legs at all?

Tom Colton said:
Floyd Pinkerton and the Hammer Movement overthrows the British government in 1982?

Which one's a dirty Red?

Tom Colton · Nov 18, 2015

Uhura's Mazda said:
Which one's a dirty Red?

Don't forget the ones with spots!

Neoteros · Nov 18, 2015

Uhura's Mazda said:
Cool! Do you think the Borghese plot had any legs at all?

I don't know if it could've succeeded, it could've gone either way I suppose. But some think the plot, up to and including its demise, was part of a conspiracy by Democrazia Cristiana, that would've taken advantage of it to pass legislation of an authoritarian nature in the name of internal security. It's hard to dismiss such rumors as nothing but conspiracy theories when the largest party in the country used to be little more than a puppet of the US government.

Brundlefly · Nov 18, 2015

Slobodan Milosevic heavily relied on Vojislav Seselj's ultra-nationalist Serbian Radical Party in 1990s Serbia, sometimes even forming coalition governments with him - does that count?

Halagaz · Nov 18, 2015

Brundlefly said:
Slobodan Milosevic heavily relied on Vojislav Seselj's ultra-nationalist Serbian Radical Party in 1990s Serbia, sometimes even forming coalition governments with him - does that count?

Milosevic was an authoritarian jack-of-all-trades, Seselj was an ultranationalist but lacked the basics of fascist ideology since he never bothered with anything not strictly tied to nationalism.

Both of them also called themselves anti-fascist. (and were opposed to each other 90% of the time, but that's another story)

IMO Serbia is one of the least likely places for OP's challenge of explicit fascism. Because after the stuff the Axis did in and around Serbia, every government in Belgrade will always give lip service to the traditions of anti-fascism, no matter how nasty and/or authoritarian it actually is.

It would be a bit like getting a "national socialist"-named government in let's say Poland or Russia. Which is pretty much ASB. Regardless of where the head honcho in Moscow (or Warsaw) actually falls on the political spectrum, he will necessarily insist that he and his party are enemies of fascism and completely unrelated to it.

I don't know if Metaxas and his ideas could have gotten some rehabilitation and a popularity boost in a different post-WW2 Greece. After all, he did fight against the fascists. (which arguably screws up the challenge again, but hey)

Byzantion · Nov 18, 2015

Uhura's Mazda said:
Post WWII, how can the reviled doctrine of fascism (in whatever interpretation you like) take power by democratic or non-democratic means in a European country?

Spain and Portugal were essentially fascist for a long time after the Fuhrerbunker, of course, but they had become so beforehand, so they don't count here. Bonus points if an Allied nation goes fascist.

Please keep the 'EVIL Tories/Orban/International Monetary Fund/Rothschild-lizard-people are NAZIS lol' to a minimum, if possible.

Belgium somehow ? It was on the brink of Civil War after WW2 and was scene of Cold War far-right operations and had a pretty strong neo-fascist scene. Also the Rexist (clerical fascists) had been a relatively strong force in society before the Wasr, well descredited themself basically and fascism in any shade for collaboration.

Falecius · Nov 18, 2015

Moe Satyr said:
The PCI wins the [insert any year from 1948 to 1991 here] elections in Italy, the CIA and the United States intervene, and an authoritarian right wing regime, fascist in all but name, is put in charge of the country. Or, the 1964 Piano Solo is successful, and Italy becomes a military dictatorship headed by Giovanni De Lorenzo.

This.
It is not exactly Fascism, but close enough (an probably closer than the historical Greek Colonels nasty business, that could also qualify).

Viriato · Nov 18, 2015

Defining fascism is such a broad term. Franco's Spain and and Salazar's Portugal could be considered fascist, but unlike Mussolini's Italy and Nazi Germany, never espoused military conquest (perhaps due to both countries not being major powers). In addition, neither Franco nor Salazar had cults of personality, at least not in the manner of Mussolini or especially Hitler.

However, both countries did have some of the trappings of fascism. Both countries had secret police, and youth movements modelled at least in part on the Balilla and Hitler Youth. Portugal was also called a Corporate State, modelled on Fascist Italy, and the upper house of parliament was as in Italy the Corporate Chambre. After 1934, Portugal also had a "Joy through Work" programme, modelled on the German KdF, building hotels for workers, and the foundation still exists today. In both Iberian countries, the Roman salute was used well past the war, though in Portugal at least it seems to have been pared down by the 1950s. In Spain though it seems to have lasted until the end of the regime as seen in the video below from October 1975.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPheM2ASOPc

Niko Malaka · Nov 18, 2015

Viriato said:
Defining fascism is such a broad term. Franco's Spain and and Salazar's Portugal could be considered fascist, but unlike Mussolini's Italy and Nazi Germany, never espoused military conquest (perhaps due to both countries not being major powers). In addition, neither Franco nor Salazar had cults of personality, at least not in the manner of Mussolini or especially Hitler.

However, both countries did have some of the trappings of fascism. Both countries had secret police, and youth movements modelled at least in part on the Balilla and Hitler Youth. Portugal was also called a Corporate State, modelled on Fascist Italy, and the upper house of parliament was as in Italy the Corporate Chambre. After 1934, Portugal also had a "Joy through Work" programme, modelled on the German KdF, building hotels for workers, and the foundation still exists today. In both Iberian countries, the Roman salute was used well past the war, though in Portugal at least it seems to have been pared down by the 1950s. In Spain though it seems to have lasted until the end of the regime as seen in the video below from October 1975.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPheM2ASOPc

Spain had the Vertical Unions modeled on the corporatist ideal and controlled by Falange. They hold a lot of power in the world of labour. That's much more than a rubber stamp. Also, there was a cult to the personality of Franco, perhaps not as bombastic as the cases of Hitler and Mussolini, but tied to the metaphisical idea of Franco being Godsend to save Spain.

Regarding the definition of fascism I totally agree, fascism has to be understood in the context of an european counter-revolutionary wave, where influences and alliances between diverse far-right forces happened, aesthetically, rethorically and in the ways to exert power. Salazar's Portugal and Franco's Spain were the late remains of that wave. They can't be disconnected from it, nor understood isolated from it.