AHC: Europeans are a minority in Australia

Create a scenario in which people of European descent are a minority and Aborigines are the majority ethnic group in Australia ala South Africa, Rhodesia, etc.

I am not asking for a apartheid-like system like in those countries, but I just want to see what would need to happen for this to take place.
 

Dolan

Banned
Uh, you do realize that Australian Aboriginals actually have it worse than Native Americans when it comes to European diseases yes?

Full blooded Native Tasmanians are extinct, and so does many Aborigine tribes that exists solely on their artifacts. Diseases hit them worse than Native Americans because unlike Native Americans who have basic hygienic practices, Australian Aborigines never developed that pre-European contact.

Having Australia as penal colonies make it worse, because prisoners are more infectious disease vector, and many have no qualms of commiting brutalities to take food/shelter/valuables.

In short, Native Australians are even more doomed than Native Americans.

To made Australian whites being minirities, maybe have Srivijaya or Majapahit settlements of North Australia succeeded in long term and actually expand, but then you'll have Javanese being ethnic majority because they would also bring the same Old World disease European brought, which Australian Aborigines have no immunity of.
 
Early Austronesian expansion into Australia somehow. Maybe a small population goes to the area around Cairns QLD or a bit north and blends with the Aboriginals, and later on this cultural fusion spreads far to the south and you get some (delayed) Lands of Red and Gold style agriculture. Something involving Papua and the Torres Strait Islanders might work too, or maybe both.

Pretty much the only way to have an Aboriginal majority in Australia is either more advanced/integrated coastal Papua leading to expansion and cultural fusion (not displacement), some Indonesian group's expansion leading to cultural fusion (and not displacement) or (much) future Indonesian colonization, or indigenous agriculture LoRaG style.

Uh, you do realize that Australian Aboriginals actually have it worse than Native Americans when it comes to European diseases yes?

Full blooded Native Tasmanians are extinct, and so does many Aborigine tribes that exists solely on their artifacts. Diseases hit them worse than Native Americans because unlike Native Americans who have basic hygienic practices, Australian Aborigines never developed that pre-European contact.

Source on this? Native Tasmanians are extinct because they had small numbers and were deliberately targeted for genocide, something which was rarer in the Americas (and most successful in places like California where some native groups were also small-numbered).

Like American Indians they did have that lack of immunity due to isolation but I've never heard of the idea they were even weaker or that it was because of their hygiene practices. It isn't like American Indian sweat lodges were very good for dealing with measles, smallpox, etc.

If you want to cite higher death rates, it's less biological and more because hunter gatherer societies are more vulnerable than agricultural societies (like those of the Mesoamerica/Andes and to a lesser extant the East Coast of North America) due to low population densities and the fact that killing just a few members of the band leads to important loss of knowledge and skills.
 

Lusitania

Donor
My take on this would be that an Asian migration to Australia say from Indonesia before Europeans. British arrive conquer continent. Discriminate against them but they do not die off like aboriginal do. Islam becomes their main religion.

While British able to slow rate of migration during 2nd half of 19th and till middle of 20th century the high birth rate of Muslim Indonesia in Australia result in them reaching 25% of whites by 1950, 50% by 1980 and surpass whites by 2018. Average Muslim family number of kids 6 while whites 1.5.

Note I did not do my math but idea is that segment of population with higher birthdate will slowly surpass other groups. This is happening in Northern Ireland where catholic with their higher birth rate are expected to become majority by 2050. Sane thing in Israel where Orthodox Jews are becoming a much larger segment of population and one reason Israel never anex West Bank.
 
Average Muslim family number of kids 6 while whites 1.5.

2-3 Muslim kids is probably more realistic. If the society is developed enough that the dominant population achieves low fertility, the minority will also see its fertility drop though not necessarily to the same degree.
 

Lusitania

Donor
2-3 Muslim kids is probably more realistic. If the society is developed enough that the dominant population achieves low fertility, the minority will also see its fertility drop though not necessarily to the same degree.
Well if we look at Muslim from Palestine and Syria and other Arab countries we would see a much higher than 3. Also if they held back in poverty then the number of children is higher.
 
It might be more easily accomplished in the 19th Century. There was a fair amount of resistance from the squatters to the prospect of large scale European settlement in Australia, as it was being funded by the sale of Crown Land. There was a campaign to grant squatters freehold over the lands they had claimed, which may have slowed the expansion of European settlement into the interior, and given many aboriginal tribes some time to recover from the diseases that tore through the population. Some might start taking up pastoralism, which would allow their populations to expand beyond what a hunter gatherer society could support. While I don't see Australia having anywhere near as many people like this, nor do I see aboriginal Australians making up 80% of the population like Black South Africans do, it's probably the nearest you can get.

Otherwise, there was a strong push in the mid to late 19th Century to impirt "coolie" labour from India to replace convicts. One could well end up with a situation where the population in some regions are mainly of Indian descent.
 
Wait another 50-100 years, that'll do the trick. Well, at least to achieve 'mere' plurality status. There will be no majority.
 
My take on this would be that an Asian migration to Australia say from Indonesia before Europeans. British arrive conquer continent. Discriminate against them but they do not die off like aboriginal do. Islam becomes their main religion.

Indonesia was not Muslim till late.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spread_of_Islam_in_Indonesia

The other point is that if gold was found earlier, the Chinese would come in large numbers.

http://www.gold-net.com.au/maps1.html
 
Probably early contact with indonesians/polynesians exposing them to old world diseases but not being settled until european discovery.
 

Lusitania

Donor
Indonesia was not Muslim till late.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spread_of_Islam_in_Indonesia

The other point is that if gold was found earlier, the Chinese would come in large numbers.

http://www.gold-net.com.au/maps1.html
I had indicated that they became Muslim. Due to discrimination Islam takes hold as way of rejecting British treatment. Anyway point being that they choose a religion that further alienated themselves from white majority and emphasized large families.
 
I had indicated that they became Muslim. Due to discrimination Islam takes hold as way of rejecting British treatment. Anyway point being that they choose a religion that further alienated themselves from white majority and emphasized large families.

I am not sure about either statement, the British were quite tolerant of any religion, so I doubt it would be a way of rejecting British rule and at the time large families were normal.
 
I mean you can just have the Aboriginals develop immunity to diseases through pre-European contact. Maybe a ship from India crashes into Australia and brings smallpox, i, Maybe the people of the East Indies or Austronesians contact the Aboriginals or Aboriginal society itself could have higher population with the AH availability of perhaps a domesticatable crop? @Jared ’s TL focuses on that aspect.

It’s nice to see threads about Australian Aboriginals. Lord knows their fate was particularly harsh after the Europeans arrived.
 
Well if we look at Muslim from Palestine and Syria and other Arab countries we would see a much higher than 3. Also if they held back in poverty then the number of children is higher.

Living conditions in Australia (even for second-class citizens) are not going to be as bad as in the Middle East. Even in Indonesia, which remains fairly poor, the birth rate is not that high.
 

Lusitania

Donor
Living conditions in Australia (even for second-class citizens) are not going to be as bad as in the Middle East. Even in Indonesia, which remains fairly poor, the birth rate is not that high.

The interesting thing is that the thread is to show one way that non-Europeans could out-number Europeans today in Australia. It cannot be as a result of the aboriginals due to disease and war so the only way would be for another population growing at a faster rate.
 
I mean you can just have the Aboriginals develop immunity to diseases through pre-European contact. Maybe a ship from India crashes into Australia and brings smallpox, i, Maybe the people of the East Indies or Austronesians contact the Aboriginals or Aboriginal society itself could have higher population with the AH availability of perhaps a domesticatable crop? @Jared ’s TL focuses on that aspect.

IIRC Aboriginals did contract smallpox as a result of Indonesians fishing for sea cucumber and trading with them, but the epidemics burned out fast because of limited numbers of people. The easiest points of contact between Australia and the rest of the world have low density even by the standards of Aboriginal Australia.

The interesting thing is that the thread is to show one way that non-Europeans could out-number Europeans today in Australia. It cannot be as a result of the aboriginals due to disease and war so the only way would be for another population growing at a faster rate.

Even if Aboriginals still get whacked by disease, if their civilization/numbers are in a better place to begin with they can still outnumber Europeans by any number of means.
 
Otherwise, there was a strong push in the mid to late 19th Century to impirt "coolie" labour from India to replace convicts. One could well end up with a situation where the population in some regions are mainly of Indian descent.

A largely Indian Australia is interesting but it wouldn't do much to help the Aboriginal people.
 
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