AHC: European Region in Asia

[God-Eater of the Marshes]

Your challenge, should you choose to take it...

With a PoD after 1499, make a region in Either East Asia, Southeast Asia or South Asia (as defined by Wikipedia) majority inhabited by people of European descent. The "region" can be as large or small as you like, but must have a population of three million or more by the year 2000AD. It cannot be a region already owned by a European country or country majority inhabited by Europeans in OTL. The larger and more populous it is, the more bonus points you get!

Have fun.

 

[iori]

It's pretty much ASB with the constraints you've put in place; you're never going to have the massive amount of immigration needed to change the demographics of an area in Asia without state control of said area.

 

[Emperor-of-New-Zealand]

Asia was such a populous place though. Even in the area of one city (such as Hong Kong or Macau, or Goa, etc.) the Asian population would far outgrow the Europeans.

Unless ethnic cleansing occurred. Maybe on one of Indonesia's smaller islands the Dutch want an ethnically Dutch island, and remove the local Asians?

 

[God-Eater of the Marshes]

It's pretty much ASB with the constraints you've put in place; you're never going to have the massive amount of immigration needed to change the demographics of an area in Asia without state control of said area.

There isn't an impetus for immigration even to places like Singapore or Hong Kong? Those places already have (or in HK's place, had) large European populations.

The place can be controlled by a European state, just can't be a place currently controlled by a European state.

 

[area11]

Perhaps the Soviets plan of a jewish autonomous region in siberia is more successful and after the fall of the USSR gains independence.

 

[iori]

There isn't an impetus for immigration even to places like Singapore or Hong Kong? Those places already have (or in HK's place, had) large European populations.

Neither of those places has large European populations.

Westerners only make-up 0.6% of Hong Kongs population and at most 2% of Singapores.

The place can be controlled by a European state, just can't be a place currently controlled by a European state.

If you expand it to cover people of mixed heritage as opposed to pure Europeans than it's doable.

In IOTL their were plans to relocate the Anglo-Indian and Indo populations of India and Indonesia to the Andaman Islands and West Papua respectively and make them independent states, however it's likely only the former would be the majority.

 

[God-Eater of the Marshes]

Neither of those places has large European populations.

Westerners only make-up 0.6% of Hong Kongs population and at most 2% of Singapores.

Sure if we're talking permanent population. But Singapore does have a very large non-residential population (about 25.3% of the population of Singapore at any one time) and a lot of that is Caucasian (I'd say about 15% of the non-residents? But trust me, you see them around a lot).

If you expand it to cover people of mixed heritage as opposed to pure Europeans than it's doable.

In IOTL their were plans to relocate the Anglo-Indian and Indo populations of India and Indonesia to the Andaman Islands and West Papua respectively and make them independent states, however it's likely only the former would be the majority.

Well yeah mixed heritage counts.

And what's the name of that plan you mentioned?

 

[Hrvatskiwi]

I think most of the plausible ideas are technicalities or dealing with very small states, like if the British decided that Singapore was so important only whites could be trusted and commit ethnic cleansing, or a similar deal with Hong Kong. Other than that or some ethnically pure Dutch Indonesian island, it's pretty much impossible. You'd need a much earlier POD that butterflied away either a) Asian habitation of the region or b) such a large population with such a large birth rate. Also, maybe increasing the European birth rate (though I can't see anyway they'd become technologically superior and still have such high birth rates) could encourage emigration from Europe, and these migrants go to Asia instead of America. Maybe a prison-island situation in Hong Kong, a la Australia?

 

[Socrates]

Have a site in Asia chosen for Zionism.

 

[Flocculencio]

There isn't an impetus for immigration even to places like Singapore or Hong Kong? Those places already have (or in HK's place, had) large European populations.

The place can be controlled by a European state, just can't be a place currently controlled by a European state.

They had large European minorities.

 

[Flocculencio]

I think most of the plausible ideas are technicalities or dealing with very small states, like if the British decided that Singapore was so important only whites could be trusted and commit ethnic cleansing, or a similar deal with Hong Kong.

So who sweeps the streets?

White civil servants and officers ain't gonna do it.

You export a white underclass, 80% will be dead from malaria and other lovely diseases in a year.

 

[God-Eater of the Marshes]

They had large European minorities.

Yeah I know. They were still large comparative to other cities in Asia.

So who sweeps the streets?

White civil servants and officers ain't gonna do it.

You export a white underclass, 80% will be dead from malaria and other lovely diseases in a year.

What if it is a gradual migration so people can get adapted to aforesaid diseases.

 

[Flocculencio]

Yeah I know. They were still large comparative to other cities in Asia.

Not really. I'd be willing to bet that other major cities like Bombay or Calcutta had similar proportions.

What if it is a gradual migration so people can get adapted to aforesaid diseases.

What do you mean by a gradual migration? Do they get shipped over the Channel and start walking from Calais, over the generations getting more and more used to steadily warmer climes? Their descendants wind up in Singapore a hundred years later sunburned but a bit more tropical disease resistant?

19th C medical resources were pretty stretched dealing with the minority population of Europeans stuck in Asia and even then they died in proportions which are quite shocking to modern eyes. The British Army and civil service had their government doctors and these resources could handle (even if it just meant letting them die more comfortably) the relatively small non-governmental European populations. In an era where the white underclass back in Britain was pretty much left to its own devices giving that level of treatment to a white underclass in Asia would have been near impossible.

And really, who would go? Australia and South Africa, not to mention Canada and America are much more congenial.

 

[titulus regius]

Have a site in Asia chosen for Zionism.

Well, in OTL in Asia there is the state of Israel.

 

[iori]

Well, in OTL in Asia there is the state of Israel.

If you ask most people they would'nt tell you Israel is in Asia.

To be quite honest I think when someone says Asia one should Assume they mean everything East of the Indo-Pakistani border, North of Australia and West of Hawai'i.

 

[Flocculencio]

If you ask most people they would'nt tell you Israel is in Asia.

To be quite honest I think when someone says Asia one should Assume they mean everything East of the Indo-Pakistani border, North of Australia and West of Hawai'i.

No one else holds to this definition.

 

[iori]

No one else holds to this definition.

That's more or less the definition of Asia to the average American.

 

[frozenpredator]

perhaps something can be done with Taiwan?

 

[God-Eater of the Marshes]

Not really. I'd be willing to bet that other major cities like Bombay or Calcutta had similar proportions.

Sure. HK and Singapore were just examples. But against the majority of cities in Asia...

What do you mean by a gradual migration? Do they get shipped over the Channel and start walking from Calais, over the generations getting more and more used to steadily warmer climes? Their descendants wind up in Singapore a hundred years later sunburned but a bit more tropical disease resistant?

19th C medical resources were pretty stretched dealing with the minority population of Europeans stuck in Asia and even then they died in proportions which are quite shocking to modern eyes. The British Army and civil service had their government doctors and these resources could handle (even if it just meant letting them die more comfortably) the relatively small non-governmental European populations. In an era where the white underclass back in Britain was pretty much left to its own devices giving that level of treatment to a white underclass in Asia would have been near impossible.

And really, who would go? Australia and South Africa, not to mention Canada and America are much more congenial.

You raise some good points here. What I meant but gradual migration was a steady trickle of people, so the medical resources are not too stretched dealing with a lot of people who'd never experienced tropical diseases at once.

If not the deep tropicals, yes, what about Taiwan? Could an expansionist America turn Taiwan into a second Hawaii? If I remember correctly, Taiwan only had a population of around 3 million up until 1930. Perhaps one of the Filipino islands?

 

[Enigmajones]

Maybe a White Minority rule state, but majority?