AHC: European Maghreb
- Thread starter miguelrj
- Start date
Spain remains controlled by Muslims, who have a falling out with the *Ottoman Empire. They begin to play a long political game to vassalize or conquer Muslim leaders across the straights, using their navy to gain control over that part of the Mediterranean and even allying with Christian leaders from across the Pyrenees to achieve this end.
Eventually, every sultanate in the Maghreb either pays tribute to or is directly administered by governors appointed by this Spain. As the modern age develops, the *Spanish government co-opts Nationalism by offering more equal partnerships, creating a more egalitarian confederacy that is still administered from their capital.
Eventually, every sultanate in the Maghreb either pays tribute to or is directly administered by governors appointed by this Spain. As the modern age develops, the *Spanish government co-opts Nationalism by offering more equal partnerships, creating a more egalitarian confederacy that is still administered from their capital.
Which definition of the Maghreb is being used is a very factor here, that is the post-1989 definition that's basically the everything West of Egypt and North of Sierra Leon or the traditional definition that was centered on the Atlas mountains and North African coast running from Agadir to Tripoli?
Not what I was looking for but kudos for originiality and for turning it around.
Any would do. The extra territory of the broader version of Maghreb is sparsely populated anyway.
Now, how much control do you want this power to have? Very tight control over the Maghreb is not sustainable, I think. No-one actually wants to have an interminable guerrilla war in the Atlas Mountains.
I've seen a lot of people defend that if Fasicist Italy stays out of WW2, Italians can get to keep Libya out of sheer demographic pressure. Most defend however that a viable Algérie Française is doomed to fail and one needs some radical changes for that to happen.
So... What could have happened so that Christian European nations successfully colonize and assimilate (or otherwise keep control) not just of Libya but of most of Morocco through Libya?
Well IIRC Italy killed or drove off large numbers of Libyan natives as part of their pacification and settlement of the country. Is there any way to trigger some kind of rebellion or massacre against part of the European population that might enrage France enough to have them carry out Trotha-esque levels of reprisals that slide into effectively genocide due to a mix of deliberation and just not being able to logistically deal with the large numbers of prisoners and displaced civilians from the fighting? If it were to be caused in part by natural drought and crop failures then it could really set up a perfect storm of bad outcomes. Thin out the local population enough and simply from an economic viewpoint the French government would then want to encourage even more whites to move there to help rebuild its economy. Cheap land for the 'right sort' of people could be offered as an inducement.
Really? I've always heard people describe Algeria as pretty much a lost cause realistically. What sort of point of departure would be able to keep it as an integral part of metropolitan France?
The reason the Algerians revolted was because France reneged on the promices of ful equality after the war ended, you just need the French government to not go back on its word and afford the non-European population full voting rights and have the French constitution actually cover them like it was supposed to.
I'm not sure whether avoiding WWI solves those problems. Avoiding WWI however gives a great demographic boost in both Italy and France and even if only a small number of that additional population settles in Algeria or Libya it could - at this early age - be enough to turn the demographics. Not to mention the additional pressure to europeanize with more European settlers around and with stronger colonial powers ruling supreme far longer.
I thought the government was only willing to do that if the locals were willing to give up their dispensation to follow Islamic law in the personal sphere and everyone be fully covered by French law, and the locals wanting equality but not give up the Islamic law part leading to an impasse? Or was I mistaken?
Their were probably a large minority that wanted to practice Sharia alongside the French legal system, but overall it was because the French government at the time simply would'nt agree on equality in general.
Overall the beginnings of what would lead to the Algerian War started in the late 1920; the French government started some reforms, but then stopped when the Pied-Noirs revolted, then fell back and started acting heavy handed in the late 30's, like forcefully dissolving some the large autonomist party, which was then followed by the Vichy Regime coming to power and being generally awful and then after the War the new government being repressive as well, which ultimately lead to the Algerian War of Independence.
So, from the 1920's the farther out the PoD is the more likely you'll have issues, however even by the 40's it was still possible to retain Algeria, though overall I think this would have also eventually lead to the ATL Fifth Republic having to adopt a Federal structure, as Unitary rule would become a problem.
I thought it was because the Pieds Noires were completely against equal rights for Arabs, and wouldn't let the French government go through with it?
If that was the sticking point...I don't know, I think a compromise where Islamic courts could settle domestic and civil matters, if both parties agreed to turn to the Islamic courts beforehand, could occur. It would prevent any Christians from having to be under Islamic law, but could get the Algerian moderates and the Muslim on the street onboard.
France has since the Revolution stated itself to be founded on the tenants of Liberty, Equality and Brotherhood, but that has'nt stopped it from not giving not only denying rights to colonial populations, but to those in the actual metropolitan territory itself over the years.
The real issue would not be the equality thing, but Secularism, which France has been very adamant about since the start of the 19th century, and codified since the 1870's.
That said it could be worked around if the Sharia courts are not treated as official, both sides agree to go to them, it's only for non legal matters, and their remains the possibility of further legal recourse.