AHC: Electrical civilization w/o steam power

Flavius Iulius Maiorianus

Flavius Iulius Maiorianus

I was thinking about the industrial revolution and the technologies that resulted, and I was wondering: Would it be possible to have a civilization invent electricity generation before they invented a steam engine? If so, how far could they advance? Would it be possible to generate electicity from water power, for example? Or was the invention of electrical devices dependant on the steam engine first? What devices might be invented, and what might electricity be used for?
Also, what is the earliest something like this could happen?
en.wikipedia.org

Electricity - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
People in ancient times did some work with electricity, though they didn't get very far. Could they have theoretically invented electrical devices in ancient times, or would such a thing have to wait until the early modern era? I think a scientific revolution would be a prerequisite for something like this.
 

Canuck Wingnut

Interestingly enough, one of the first commercial dynamos was built by Charles F. Brush, and his prototype used a horse-powered treadmill to power the device. So, if the intellectual knowledge of electricity has reached a point where designing basic generators is feasible, means of powering them (probably water power) will be available.
A minor point- before alternating current gets figured out, this ATL will likely only see electricity used very close to where its generated, reinforcing the industrial dominance of towns with access to good sites for water power slightly longer than was the case OTL.
 

CaptainCalvert

I'm not convinced it's likely, mostly because you really need mid or late Victorian age metallurgy and manufacturing to make decent hydroelectric units. Having said that, I did have a pleasing vision of a 16th century style watermill at the foot of a snowy mountain also having an electric oven for baking.
 

Jürgen

It’s not impossible, but it will just be a phase and steam engine will be developed later. But it will radical change how the Industrial Revolution function and likely lead to a much later development of trains. As for steam engine at some point you will see people in region with limited hydro power will begin heat water with coal in a pressured environment to run a generator.
 

Geekhis Khan

Possible to some degree. One ancient culture developed very low voltage metal-acid batteries for unknown purposes (likely ceremonial) but nothing capable of functional work. basic metal-acid batteries can be stumbled across fairly easily (copper + zinc + acid; remember the Potato Clock?) but high voltage batteries will take a while, or a crap load in parallel. Enlightenment scientists experimented with electricity generation on a small "parlor tricks" level and the basic principles of electricity were known in the late 18th century. Basic batteries and DC circuits could thus be possible along with some basic and inefficient resistive heat elements. Light bulbs will require knowledge of how to maintain a vacuum and good glassblowing skills, which were possible in the 18th century and hypothetically possible sooner, but even then it took decades of experimentation to find the right elements (tungsten). Generators and electric motors will require the development of strong artificial magnets (natural lodestones are unlikely to be pure and powerful enough) and there's a bit of chicken-egg thing as you need electricity at high voltages to make magnets and typically want magnet-based generators to make electricity at high voltages (otherwise lots of batteries). You'll need good metallurgy to remove impurities in the resistive elements or they'll burn out quickly. Possible for some level of functioning electric tools and gizmos to be had before the steam engine, including electric lights and heat, but likely at an artisan level and only for the very rich.
 

Canuck Wingnut

The theory that the Baghdad Battery was a) a voltaic cell and b) used to electroplate objects has been pretty thoroughly debunked; but its a reminder that very low voltages and simple technology can have some uses if that's all you can generate and you understand what you're doing.

Importantly from an AH perspective, several concepts of how you could make an effective, if expensive and limited in volume, electroplating machine with pre-industrial technologies have been thought through by the proponents of the theory, which gives an example of a hypothetical use for very low tech electrical systems which, if constructed, might have been a valuable resource for later scientists and engineers to learn about how electricity works more rapidly than OTL.
 
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