AHC: Eastern and Wester Roman Empires' role reversed.

How can you have the Eastern Roman Empire collapse early, like 4th Century or so, while having the Western Roman Empire survive until the 15th at the least?

Perhaps Germanic tribes move into the Balkans prompted by whatever, and you end up with Franks along the Danube, and Goths or Lombards in Greece.
 

Dirk

Banned
I think the POD would have to be so early that the empire might never split.... Remember, the Eastern Empire was by the 5th Century the wealthier, mightier, more cultured, and better populated of the two halves of the Roman Empire. Its borders were shorter and easier to defend, and it didn't have the psychological jewel that was the city of Rome to attract barbarians.
 
A migration of western germanic tribes along the Danube is really unlikely. They began entering in western part as early than III century, and formed themselves really close of Roman Empire; when Goths were migrating peoples.

I wouldn't rule out a germanic settlement in the East, but the west is really a more easy prey :
- WRE was poorer, while wealty, and had limited ressources to resist
- WRE was less populated, and had to use germans to settle some lands and to form armies
- WRE was almost entierly made of one continental piece, when ERE beneficied from having two parts clearly separated from each other and hard to cross as they were able to maintain a navy.

Except if Constantinople falls, and that Germans takeover ERE's navy, I can't see a fall of the eastern part of the Empire. And frankly, if they able to do that, I don't see the WRE having much more chances, as Africa is doomed to be taken over as well.
 
Just as the ERE hung to Greece and Anatolia, could the WRE be more defensible if it retreated to the boot? They have the alps to the north, and with enough ships the rest is safe.
 
Just as the ERE hung to Greece and Anatolia, could the WRE be more defensible if it retreated to the boot? They have the alps to the north, and with enough ships the rest is safe.

ERE hung to Greece and Anatolia lost both the major part of its fiscal revenues (Greece having been plundered to the ground) and it's granary with Egypt.

WRE lost all its fiscal revenues with only Italy, with Alps not being invasion-proofs. (If people didn't listened to Hannibal, Teutoni made clear that an invading people could pass trough easily).
 
A migration of western germanic tribes along the Danube is really unlikely. They began entering in western part as early than III century, and formed themselves really close of Roman Empire; when Goths were migrating peoples.

I wouldn't rule out a germanic settlement in the East, but the west is really a more easy prey :
- WRE was poorer, while wealty, and had limited ressources to resist
- WRE was less populated, and had to use germans to settle some lands and to form armies
- WRE was almost entierly made of one continental piece, when ERE beneficied from having two parts clearly separated from each other and hard to cross as they were able to maintain a navy.

Except if Constantinople falls, and that Germans takeover ERE's navy, I can't see a fall of the eastern part of the Empire. And frankly, if they able to do that, I don't see the WRE having much more chances, as Africa is doomed to be taken over as well.

Possibly stupid question:

Why was the Western Roman Empire poorer, less wealthy, and less populated?

Could anything be done to reverse that trend?
 
Possibly stupid question:
There's no such thing as stupid questions.
Stupid answers, on the contrary... :D

Why was the Western Roman Empire poorer, less wealthy, and less populated?
Less ancient urban civilisations than in the eastern part, essentially. Furthermore, the roman economy was still a rural based one (even if cities played the role of administrative centers,; and economic redistribution poles) and conquests provoked the appearance of rural network centralized over landowners rather than a more diverse economy.

The distinction wouldn't have been so great if the western part wasn't in direct contact with raider leagues and peoples. Syria, Egypt and Africa were more or less spared, but WRE was basically a continental block without real obstacle once limes was broken : Germans raiders and pirates were able to plunder all their way to Hispania even in the III century.

Could anything be done to reverse that trend?
Not much : it was essentially the result of ancient history and geographical features. Save an absence of III century crisis (really hard, as it was a combination of climatic change, economical crisis, political instability and migrations) that could as well butterfly the division of the empire...
 
It's plausible; after the Battle of Adrianople, the East was in serious trouble while the West was still fairly secure. If the Visigoths don't eventually migrate from the Balkans to Italy, the Danube becomes the porous frontier while the Rhine defenses can still hold. The Goths won't take the whole empire, but they can make the Balkans (the East's best recruiting ground for troops) untenable and might be able to impose their own candidate for Eastern Emperor.
 
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