AHC: Earliest Possible use of Suicide Bombers?

The earliest suicide bombers/attackers that I know of and that did that was gavrilo princip and the bunch. They trew grenades, shot guns and then were suposed to comit suicide by a poisonous pill, but they didnt work
A Czar had an actual suicide bombing with the person holding it up while the Czar tried to help an injured bystander.
 
Guys, when are we going to ask the central question concerning this WI?

What historical/cultural/social events and or Points of departure are going to lead a movement of people to the point of thinking,

"The only way to acchieve "Thus-and-so" is to turn ourselves into human explosives platforms."

This thread is about how we can get the earliest possible suicide bombers, so in that spirit we have to ask what forces and events would lead up to it.

Talking about people accepting the liklihood of death, or being willing to kill themselves to avoid a worse fate, or willing to die as a part of a larger mission, or willing to kill themselves to avoid some sort of shame or perception of shame does not answer that question.

How do we get a western mind to the point that they put on an explosive harness and turn themselves into a walking human guided munition BEFORE 1944?

What events/forces/ causes will lead to that?
 

whitecrow

Banned
"The only way to acchieve "Thus-and-so" is to turn ourselves into human explosives platforms."

This thread is about how we can get the earliest possible suicide bombers, so in that spirit we have to ask what forces and events would lead up to it.

Talking about people accepting the liklihood of death, or being willing to kill themselves to avoid a worse fate, or willing to die as a part of a larger mission, or willing to kill themselves to avoid some sort of shame or perception of shame does not answer that question.
The bolded part seems pertinent to answering the question I think.

"How do we get a western mind to the point that they put on an explosive harness and turn themselves into a walking human guided munition BEFORE 1944?
Please note at no point did I limit the OP to Western Suicide Bombers. Everyone is fair game.

Also, I don't want to make an identical thread in before-1900 forum so if you have pre-1900 PODs than posting them here is OK by me.
 
The bolded part seems pertinent to answering the question I think.


Please note at no point did I limit the OP to Western Suicide Bombers. Everyone is fair game.

Also, I don't want to make an identical thread in before-1900 forum so if you have pre-1900 PODs than posting them here is OK by me.
Yes, well before 1900 the explosive tech get's a little tough not to mention the trigger technology.
 
You cant do that prior to 1944, the trigers were simply not there, and the fuse is unreliable


Mills Bombs where developed in 1915, as was the Potato Masher (Model 24 Grenade) so fuses and detonators suitable where available at least that early, (A bandoleer of grenades makes a rough and ready suicide vest, tie the pins together and pull the lot at once, and that's before you get clever.)
 
Mills Bombs where developed in 1915, as was the Potato Masher (Model 24 Grenade) so fuses and detonators suitable where available at least that early, (A bandoleer of grenades makes a rough and ready suicide vest, tie the pins together and pull the lot at once, and that's before you get clever.)
This is so.

That reminds me of the end of the movie "Raising Arizona".
 
I don't understand the apparent rush in this thread towards relatively high-tech devices requiring reliable 20th century triggers etc, or superior explosives.

So its the 12th century and some rebellious group begins to recruit fanatics to blow up the local market belonging to hated rulers. They take a wagon, put a barrel or two of gunpowder in it under some other goods, and have a fanatic drive it in. He gets there and sticks a torch (or whatever he might have, a lamp maybe) into the "package." Boom! History's first terrorist attack.

The point of these sorts of attacks, along with the terror, is that they can be delivered against powerful opponents with very little logistics or resources. There isn't even a need, in this off-the-cuff scenario, for much damage if people are afraid to go back to that market.

My point is that if you are looking for the earliest potential suicide bombers, it seems to me that you should be looking much further back.
 
I don't understand the apparent rush in this thread towards relatively high-tech devices requiring reliable 20th century triggers etc, or superior explosives.

So its the 12th century and some rebellious group begins to recruit fanatics to blow up the local market belonging to hated rulers. They take a wagon, put a barrel or two of gunpowder in it under some other goods, and have a fanatic drive it in. He gets there and sticks a torch (or whatever he might have, a lamp maybe) into the "package." Boom! History's first terrorist attack.

The point of these sorts of attacks, along with the terror, is that they can be delivered against powerful opponents with very little logistics or resources. There isn't even a need, in this off-the-cuff scenario, for much damage if people are afraid to go back to that market.

My point is that if you are looking for the earliest potential suicide bombers, it seems to me that you should be looking much further back.
Gunpower is heavy and requires a great deal of specialized knowledge to make. also the attack would kill more friendlies than enemies.

They always do, it's why even in the late 20th century/early 21st century they never really caught on or became widespread.
 
Gunpower is heavy and requires a great deal of specialized knowledge to make. also the attack would kill more friendlies than enemies.

Discriminating between targets is not a big hallmark of terror attacks, and I'm not suggesting bombs on the scale that can destroy whole villages. A single barrel packed with powder and nails, say, hidden amongst a bunch of other barrels. Fear, fire and alarum, some dead neighbors, and a message. It's plausible. You just need the same key ingredient as ever - someone crazy enough to light the fuse.
 
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