AHC: Earliest possible unifications of Italy and Romania

And no, for Italy the Romans and/or Odoacer don't count:p

I vaugley remmeber reading some time ago that in the Middle ages, through dynastic marriges the Milanese came very close to this (minus the Papal states and Venice), but could they have realisticly done it? Or anyone else for that matter (thats actually a power in the Italian peniniuslar).

As for Romania, I think thats the far bigger challenge (I may be completley wrong). I don't know enough myself to really input, only could eor any other Romanian sta have somehow achived this while Hungary was suffciently weakend? I'm pretty sure whence/if the Ottomans role into the region the chances of such drasticly decrease.
 

birdboy2000

Banned
Michael the Brave doesn't get assassinated? He united the three Romanian states, if briefly and against the backdrop of war with the Ottomans - maybe he could awaken Romanian proto-nationalism and force an early union under another leader even if he loses the war.
 
Justinian.
That woudent be so much unfication as conquest, would it?;)

If Gian Galeazzo Visconti doesn't kick the bucket quite early.
Thats who I vaugley remembred! Thank you!:D

Michael the Brave doesn't get assassinated? He united the three Romanian states, if briefly and against the backdrop of war with the Ottomans - maybe he could awaken Romanian proto-nationalism and force an early union under another leader even if he loses the war.
Quick wiki and yes!:eek: From what Wiki says, this doesnt seem to be too hard either. Michael just needs to be a little more wary of his Catholic allies and protect himself more thoughley to avoid the assasination?
 
Well, OTL's Italian unification was actually conquest of the other regions by Piedmont. :D
Partially. The bulk of the Papal states along with the duchies of Parma, Modena and Tuscany were conquered by Piedmont, but the south was added to Italy through the work of Giuseppe Garibaldi (who although proclaiming to come in the name of the king of Piedmont, received very little actual help from them). And Lombardy and Veneto were added to Italy through the help of France and Prussia respectively (because Italy managing to beat Austria belongs in the ASB forum :p).
 

Susano

Banned
With a different end to the War of the Spanish Succession one could end up with Sicily-Naples, Tuscany, Milan and Parma in one hand, under a Bourbon sideline (Parma and Tuscany via the Farnese inheritance, of course). That would be half the way already...
 
With a different end to the War of the Spanish Succession one could end up with Sicily-Naples, Tuscany, Milan and Parma in one hand, under a Bourbon sideline (Parma and Tuscany via the Farnese inheritance, of course). That would be half the way already...

Like having the House of Savoy not being as important to the War? Or the Bourbons doing better?
 
Partially. The bulk of the Papal states along with the duchies of Parma, Modena and Tuscany were conquered by Piedmont, but the south was added to Italy through the work of Giuseppe Garibaldi (who although proclaiming to come in the name of the king of Piedmont, received very little actual help from them). And Lombardy and Veneto were added to Italy through the help of France and Prussia respectively (because Italy managing to beat Austria belongs in the ASB forum :p).

Well, i wasn't entirely serious, but in the former Borbonic Kingdom the people from Piedmont were largely perceived as conquerors as well. As for Lombardy and Venetia, yes, Piedmont got them through alliance with France and Prussia, but it was a conquest however.

Piedmont ALONE has obviously no hope to defeat the Austrians, but you can imagine a realistic scenario where it does better than OTL without being ASB.
 

Susano

Banned
Like having the House of Savoy not being as important to the War? Or the Bourbons doing better?

It would take several requirements. One is that the Bavarian pretender survives, whats his name, and gets the throne of Spain. And even then one needs a different first partition plan, one where Sicily-Naples is kept independent from France. In that case Philip (IOTL Philip V of Spain) would gain Sicily-Naples (instead of the Dauphin as originally planned, leading to a later union with France), and maybe also Milan (IOTL planned as compensation to the House of Lorraine). Via his Farnese wife he would also inherit (claims to) Parma and Tuscany.
 
For an "earliest" attempt: could the territories of Matilda di Canossa be kept together after her death, and her successor expand their rule to other areas?
 
It would take several requirements. One is that the Bavarian pretender survives, whats his name, and gets the throne of Spain. And even then one needs a different first partition plan, one where Sicily-Naples is kept independent from France. In that case Philip (IOTL Philip V of Spain) would gain Sicily-Naples (instead of the Dauphin as originally planned, leading to a later union with France), and maybe also Milan (IOTL planned as compensation to the House of Lorraine). Via his Farnese wife he would also inherit (claims to) Parma and Tuscany.

Hmm, about Milan, could maybe it be given to Philip along Sicily and Naples, while the Lorraines get the Spanish Netherlands in exchange for their home duchy?
 
It would take several requirements. One is that the Bavarian pretender survives, whats his name, and gets the throne of Spain. And even then one needs a different first partition plan, one where Sicily-Naples is kept independent from France. In that case Philip (IOTL Philip V of Spain) would gain Sicily-Naples (instead of the Dauphin as originally planned, leading to a later union with France), and maybe also Milan (IOTL planned as compensation to the House of Lorraine). Via his Farnese wife he would also inherit (claims to) Parma and Tuscany.

Joseph Ferdinand, IIRC.
 
Well, i wasn't entirely serious, but in the former Borbonic Kingdom the people from Piedmont were largely perceived as conquerors as well. As for Lombardy and Venetia, yes, Piedmont got them through alliance with France and Prussia, but it was a conquest however.

Piedmont ALONE has obviously no hope to defeat the Austrians, but you can imagine a realistic scenario where it does better than OTL without being ASB.
I guessed by the little smiley face ;). And I always thought that the feeling of being conquered by the Piedmontese in the south came from the heavy handed government imposed there in the 1860's (contrary to Cavours deathbed advice to rule the south "with liberty"). Prehaps Piedmont could further improve if there was better leadership pre-Cavour.
 
For Romania I think the earliest chance lays in the Vlacho-Bulgarian Tsardom of the Asen family. At the time of the Bulgaro-Vlach revolt there were still sufficient Vlach people south of the Danube for it to eventually end up Vlach. It DID exert some control north of the Danube and thet could have extended.

But then again, I think that it was the survival of Vlach language NORTH of the Danube that was exceptional as Slavic culture was on the rise pretty much everywhere in the area. And it was the moment that the Byzantines decided to translate the Bible and the prayer books in Old Slavonic (and not in any Vlach or Turkic) dialect, that they pretty much sealed the linguistic and cultural fate of most of the Balcans. And the survival of Romanian, Aromanian and Albanian communities (along with the Orthodox Turkic Gagauz) being the exception to the rule.
 
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