AHC: Earlier Muscovy

Onyx

Banned
Challenge is basically to have Moscow to emerge as a Rus Principality earlier than 1300-1400s, since it was first recorded in the 1100's, I guess that would be the earliest, or to have someone else make a POD to have Moscow emerge earlier than that
 
An even worse Mongol raids into the Dnieper territories plus a more, systematic migration from Kiev into the northeast would have done the trick of boosting Muscovy's chances of becoming the dominant Rus' principality. I for one, would like to see a scenario where Muscovy and Halych-Volhynia go to war with each other.
 

Onyx

Banned
An even worse Mongol raids into the Dnieper territories plus a more, systematic migration from Kiev into the northeast would have done the trick of boosting Muscovy's chances of becoming the dominant Rus' principality. I for one, would like to see a scenario where Muscovy and Halych-Volhynia go to war with each other.


Well I'd rather have Moscow become powerful before the Mongols arrive, and I would like a legitimate prince, idk if I have to make one up or chose Dolgurky as the man....
 

Wolfpaw

Banned
The stronger Moscow is before the Mongols arrive, the more they will seek to bring the Muscovites to heel. Muscovy owed its rise to its princes sucking up to the Khans and being responsible for the taxes culled from the Mongols' Rus' subjects.

No Mongols = No Muscovy. Dominance is likely to go to Tver if its dynasty can get its act together.
 
Or possibly Vladimir-Sudzal. They're the other Rus' principalities that are vying for dominance along with Novgorod and Halch-Volhynia.
 
Or possibly Vladimir-Sudzal.

This part I feel like I really have to expand on.

Pre-Mongol Rus had two big centres, Vladimir-on-the-Klyazma, and Galich/Lvov/Vladimir-on-the-Volyn. Both of these were regional heavyweights being the rough equals of a European kingdom. That was a consistent trend.

Novgorod was trending towards isolation, Polotsk too, Smolensk wasn't powerful enough except when participating in some Vladimir civil wars. Most importantly, other than Smolensk itself (a massively important city), Smolensk lands weren't heavily settled (unlike Zalesye, Volyn, Dniepr and Severia).

Kiev was a prize to be captured, a great big rich city with no military power of its own at that point.

Chernigov lands and Chernigov princes were also pretty active but heavily divided. Further, Rus' was very heavily involved with both the settled Black Hats, and the still-nomadic Cumans. The politics were extremely heavily entwined to the point where military campaigns almost always involved Russians and Cumans both on any side, and any political realignments involved both Rus and nearby steppe.

So where does Moscow come in?

Moscow was one of the roughly 70-80 towns that fell under the Vladimir domains, and part of the heritable lands of the Grand Principality. Because the Russian princes practiced partible inheritance, it eventually passed into the permanent domain of its own branch of the Vladimir princes.

The Mongol-era history consists of the three centres of Vladimir land (Tver, Moscow and Suzdal (later Nizhny Novgorod)) competing to be named Grand Princes of VLADIMIR; that was the source of the legitimacy. The Metropolitan moved to Vladimir too, after Kiev got destroyed by Batu et al. Vladimir lands across the Oka recovered faster than those in the Oka-Don plain because they were raided less often and people fled there from the Steppe. This accounts for the rise of Moscow and Tver. Nizhny Novgorod was an expansion of the Volga trade system and a staging ground against Bulgar. Suzdal was an old town that replaced Rostov as the centre of local boyardom.

The Moscow branch eventually monopolized that position and used the revenues to build up Moscow to rival and eventually overtake Vladimir (not before the 15th c. even though Vladimir got burnt down by the Mongols repeatedly), the same way that Vladimir once overtook Rostov.

Moscow also differed from their rivals because they eventually introduced uneven partible inheritance where the oldest son took the overwhelmingly largest part of the domain. This allowed to concentrate power vs. rivals. That along with good pro-Mongol politics was key. Moscow's position in the centre of Vladimir lands' internal trade routes cemented it.

But before the 14th c., Moscow is not prominent at all. There's a long list of towns in Zalesye alone that could have been credible rivals.
 
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