AHC: Earlier Empire originating in Ukraine and Volga basin

Ateas united while Scythia from Danaster to Don river. He made Philip II of Macedonia his heir, but was defeated by him and Philip wasn't interested in pursuing his claim. Say Philip pursues his claim after defeating Ateas and Scythia becomes a part of Macedonia. Than, during the diadochi wars it breaks free, while being ruled by Greek elites.

Also, a Phillip II POD gives you an excellent general to work with...
 
Continuing from post #17

Also, given that the Hittites are famous for their war chariots, can you imagine a better reason for them to constantly improve them than snatch fertile land from nomads on horseback and keep it?
 
Do Magyars count?

If they manage to fend off the Pechenegs and Khazars they might have controlled the land between the Carpathian Mountains and the Don at least.
 
The problem is that for the region, and specifically from the perspective of controlling the region, pastoral nomads have an innate advantage both in the sense that cavalry ruled the battlefield until well into the age of gunpowder. It’s the same advantage that the indo-Europeans themselves had in warfare early on. And so theres a major practical difficulty to just moving in and establishing agriculture. If it were just a matter of moving in and establishing agricultural communities, the Greeks, Thracian, or Goths, would have done it. They all made some kind of effort to expand in that direction historically and they were largely constrained from expanding inland into the region specifically by its nomadic inhabitants. Alongside that there is also the constant external threat from new nomads trying to move in and take over this pasture land. Which makes it a matter of having to be able to consistently and thoroughly beat nomadic societies moving in and attempting to take over as well. Which is really only a situation which emerges roughly in the era when much of Ukraine east of the Dneiper was brought under cultivation in real life.

Exactly. The early Russian expansion into the area was checked by a nomadic factor with the end result being deterioration of the Kievan Rus and ascendance of the more secure Central (Vladimir-Suzdal) and Western (Galitz - Wolyn) areas.

Sedentary expansion into the Left Bank territories started only during the age of the firearms and even then a complete victory was not achieved until 2nd half of the XVIII (after annexation of the Crimea which eliminated danger of the future nomadic raiding).
 
Ukraine is one of the most strategic and fertile lands in the Western Hemisphere. It was however rarely a center of large Empires. It was inhabited by Scythians,Cimmerians,Caucasians and Uralic people. In this AHC,we need a significantly large Empire built by either Scythians,Caucasian peoples,Cimmerians, Finno-Ugric peoples and such people. POD range is 3000BCE till the Turkic expansion into Central Asia. The Empire can stretch through Ukraine,Central Asia,Afghanistan,Iran,Northern fringes of India,Eastern Europe,North Central Europe. So let's see what you've got to make.

"Ukraine" or "Volga basin"? These are different geographic areas.

Volga basin was a center of at least 2 large empires: Khazars and the Golden Horde even if they do not fit a "racial profile". OTOH, if the Turik people are in, then you have the Golden Horde (Kipchak Horde).
 

Albert.Nik

Banned
Do Magyars count?

If they manage to fend off the Pechenegs and Khazars they might have controlled the land between the Carpathian Mountains and the Don at least.
Magyars are traced back to Antiquity so yes,as per me. Also,Magyars are almost like natives here as they are a mix of Uralic,Scythians and Caucasians. So,Magyars are a yes.
 
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