AHC: Dutch-Wank

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You're view of it is different then my view of it, just like everybody has a different view of what would have happened. A timeline is a personal thing. Especialy considering that "wank" in my opinion means something unrealistic and if I write a Dutch wank it will most certainly be relatively unrealistic.

After a certain time has passed between the PoD, all alternate history devolves into pure speculation. And speculation is a matter of opinion. As for unrealistic; why not have Amsterdam unite all of Germany under its rule?
 
After a certain time has passed between the PoD, all alternate history devolves into pure speculation. And speculation is a matter of opinion.
Agreed, that is exactly what I mean. You can reasonably speculate what would happen immediatly after an event, but the further away the more speculative it would be.

Which btw is why I think the revolutions will be butterflied away or at least changed beyond recognition, Parma.

As for unrealistic; why not have Amsterdam unite all of Germany under its rule?
If you want something to be Dutch wank, you can't have the Netherlands turn into Germany or else it becomes a German wank. The Netherlands is simply too small to absorb all of Germany. At one point the balance will simply shift towards the rest of Germany and it will be a German country, but not a Dutch country. You can add a reasonably large part of the Netherlands for it to remain Dutch. Actualy i think you can double the Netherlands in size, before the centre starts to shift, but more than that, especialy the moment you start adding richer, more populous areas, it simpply becomes Germany.
 
I've stumbled upon this interesting topic before, of that I'm sure, but since I ought to study for my International private law exam I naturally researched some thing else:

anyway: I agree with the sentiment that the at to make the Netherlands a true great power the P.O.D. must be before the Westphalian Peace of 1648, it can still become a significant multi regional power.

If adhering strictly to "no POD prior to 1700", then the earliest you can go is either get Willem III remarried and fathering a son (imho, preferably with an Austrian/Spanish Habsburg) and/or having the Netherlands have more success in the Spanish war of succession of 1702. (Best have Willem live to survive this and get his son recognised as Stadthouder)

It was a fluke in OTL that the Spanish Netherlands went Austrian and it could end up Dutch. That would allow a significant boost to the Netherlands. Though the financial collapse of the Netherlands still needs to be prevented.

Having the Spanish Netherlands become Dutch partially prevents Austrian overextension. The price may be them rejoining the HRE (that would be in name only though). For that would "expand" the HRE and complete one of the Austrian war goals. It also should cement an alliance (protection) against France. This would put most (possibly all) of the XVII Netherlands under one banner again. Problem is France and also religion. Though imperial endorsement might be able to help with the religion bit. Especially since the emperor had some power with the pope.

Further options are to expand collonially: Open up the cape to settlers, or possibly grab some bits in South America (Cape Horn?). These colonies need be settler colonies to maintain Dutch power. Suriname too should be opened up and settlers stimulated. It is too late for a Dutch Brazil bit expansion isn't totally out of the question though.

Another useful POD would be the English and French losing population via illness or even civil war or combination missing the population difference for a short bit. Also it might help the Dutch get back some financial advantage over her biggest rivals.

Then there is the Napoleonic era in which a well played hand can put the Dutch a bit further towards the top. Either the House of Orange manages to keep Belgium and industrialises faster and can overcome the religious and language problem or it can be done by Louis Napoleon and a timely defection to the "Allies".

It is very important for the Netherlands, should it wish to be higher on the totem pole, that they either gain settler colonies or land in Europe. Preferably also get enough allies who fight the battles while the Dutch reap the rewards.

As to how far the Netherlands can expand into Germany/France is about the BeNeLux plus Nord Pas de Calais plus the Bakker-Schul Plan (areas where western low German is spoken). Same can be said for eaten expansion on the Belgian/Luxembourgian side, but one swiftly runs into the danger of this ATL Netherlands being more German than Dutch.

Colony wise, the colonies need to be retained until such time as technology allowed for complete integration but Africa and parts of South America may be places for expansion with 1700 as the earliest POD. I don't think the Netherlands can get enough Dutch speaking people to more settled/colonised places.

anyway, I should go studying again.
 
What about Emden? That seemed to be changing ownership in the 18th century. Any chance it could end up Dutch as part of Frisia?
 

CalBear

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I've stumbled upon this interesting topic before, of that I'm sure, but since I ought to study for my International private law exam I naturally researched some thing else:

anyway: I agree with the sentiment that the at to make the Netherlands a true great power the P.O.D. must be before the Westphalian Peace of 1648, it can still become a significant multi regional power.

If adhering strictly to "no POD prior to 1700", then the earliest you can go is either get Willem III remarried and fathering a son (imho, preferably with an Austrian/Spanish Habsburg) and/or having the Netherlands have more success in the Spanish war of succession of 1702. (Best have Willem live to survive this and get his son recognised as Stadthouder)

It was a fluke in OTL that the Spanish Netherlands went Austrian and it could end up Dutch. That would allow a significant boost to the Netherlands. Though the financial collapse of the Netherlands still needs to be prevented.

Having the Spanish Netherlands become Dutch partially prevents Austrian overextension. The price may be them rejoining the HRE (that would be in name only though). For that would "expand" the HRE and complete one of the Austrian war goals. It also should cement an alliance (protection) against France. This would put most (possibly all) of the XVII Netherlands under one banner again. Problem is France and also religion. Though imperial endorsement might be able to help with the religion bit. Especially since the emperor had some power with the pope.

Further options are to expand collonially: Open up the cape to settlers, or possibly grab some bits in South America (Cape Horn?). These colonies need be settler colonies to maintain Dutch power. Suriname too should be opened up and settlers stimulated. It is too late for a Dutch Brazil bit expansion isn't totally out of the question though.

Another useful POD would be the English and French losing population via illness or even civil war or combination missing the population difference for a short bit. Also it might help the Dutch get back some financial advantage over her biggest rivals.

Then there is the Napoleonic era in which a well played hand can put the Dutch a bit further towards the top. Either the House of Orange manages to keep Belgium and industrialises faster and can overcome the religious and language problem or it can be done by Louis Napoleon and a timely defection to the "Allies".

It is very important for the Netherlands, should it wish to be higher on the totem pole, that they either gain settler colonies or land in Europe. Preferably also get enough allies who fight the battles while the Dutch reap the rewards.

As to how far the Netherlands can expand into Germany/France is about the BeNeLux plus Nord Pas de Calais plus the Bakker-Schul Plan (areas where western low German is spoken). Same can be said for eaten expansion on the Belgian/Luxembourgian side, but one swiftly runs into the danger of this ATL Netherlands being more German than Dutch.

Colony wise, the colonies need to be retained until such time as technology allowed for complete integration but Africa and parts of South America may be places for expansion with 1700 as the earliest POD. I don't think the Netherlands can get enough Dutch speaking people to more settled/colonised places.

anyway, I should go studying again.
A THREE YEAR necro?

Really?

You have been her long enough to know better than this. You also had to positively click through the warning that this was a three year old thread.

DO NOT do this again.
 
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