AHC different early migrations

[Blorg]

Ask and ye shall receive.

Perhaps they seek freedom from the Byzantines or just place their bets on a better land to the east. I personally think they could move along the river routes until they reach the Angara. From there they could move south into the mongol steep and settle around the Selenga river and farm. OR move further south into the Northern Yellow river area and collapse the local area or offer their services in exchange for the land the higher government. Making a Gothic vassal state of china.

Or they could move east following the Lena and then Maya river and move south down the coast and settle Sakhalin island and potentially invade the Hokkaido. Or they could do it all using a gardener convoy model(Basically gardener ship model look it up). One of the most interesting part is when the Europeans discover the last Goths in Asia with a potential admixture culture depending on where they are. They could be moved around and made the colonial elite of a balkanised china or japan.

This idea has a LOT of potential.

 

[Hvalrossen]

How populated was the encircled areas of this map during the migration era? Does anyone know?

 

[Albert.Nik]

SOME of the Magyars did. If the majority of them did. If all of them had looked that East Asian, then more Magyars today probably would as well, unless the Magyar takeover of Pannonia was an example of a language and culture being successfully imposed from the top down by a foreign ruling elite.

Today's Hungarians have significant of Scythio-Sarmatian and Caucasian Ancestry along with the original Magyar ancestry and the Hunnic and Turkic components if any would be quite less. After settling in Pannonia,Slavic,Germanic and Roman ancestry along with other Indo-European ancestries there would have contributed to what makes Hungarians today.

All that said,the East Asian Magyars is a bit questionable. Most Uralic people living in the Steppe region look quite European,maybe a little different. Also living in the steppe unlike the Khanty who live in Forested areas,they would have picked up a lot of Scythian and Iranian ancestry even before meeting the Sarmatian confederations en route to Pannonia. They might have been similar to Chuvash,IMO.

Also,Huns weren't any "Asian" only confederation. Even I had this misunderstanding. They picked up various nomadic peoples en route. Mostly Uralic,Iranian,Tocharian,Caucasian and Turko-Iranian (example like the Tatars,etc). The Huns who invaded India were similar. Eastern Iranian like the Sarmatians but a lot of Tocharian component too unlike Pannonian Huns.

 

[Optical_Illusion]

Flipping over the "More Indo-Europeans in the Levant and Mesopotamia" variant for the reverse scenario:

Change/POD (what happens): Pastoralist East Semitic speakers wander further from Mesopotamia into Central Asia, adopting early domestic horses and wagons. Some offshoots adopt Bactrian camels, but others use a wagon and horse package. They eventually spreading north into the Pontic-Caspian steppe belt and from there, through random twist of military success, into Eastern Europe, largely replacing Middle to Late Bronze Age Indo-European speakers.

Time (when it happens): 3000-2000 BCE and subsequent.

Major effects on history/Summary of the history of the group: Too much to say. Likely groups Iranian and Indo-Aryan speakers moving into Iran and Central Asia and Indo-Aryan into India are pushed aside. It could be interesting to have East-West divide between Munda, Tibeto-Burman and Dravidian languages be the primary split within India?

Likely cultural development: Far too early to say. Would suggest people in this timeline think of Afro-Asiatic languages as stretching from Europe to the north to East Africa to the south and see early religious ideas and forms that are shared across the whole zone. Indo-European is probably seen much more as a family restricted to Europe (and then the Americas if they are again colonized by Western Europeans in this TL).

 

[Albert.Nik]

Caucasian Middle East: Caucasian peoples include various people like the Hurrians,Urartians,Kaskians,Circassians,Georgians,Armenians,Hattians,Georgians,Nakh,etc migrate into the Middle East during the Bronze Age and continue onto Egypt.

The resultant is more hybrid and a relatively unified Middle East in the beginning of the Iron age.

 

[Hvalrossen]

What about a different from OTL lack of migration? Say that agriculture spreads into Europe more by adoption of agriculture than by migration. Europe would then be quite different from OTL. The migration into Europe of agriculturalists, in this scenario does not stop, it is just reduced in size. How might ATL Neolithic-Europe differ from OTL Neolithic-Europe?

 

[Optical_Illusion]

If you had a situation where instead of being about 75:25 Anatolian migrants:local HG people by the Middle Neolithic (in North and West Europe), it was the other way round, I think you could say for sure that the mixed population would probably have slightly lower genetic diversity (since the Anatolians had higher than the European HG groups). That might affect vulnerability to plagues and things? (Though probably not very much; it's not like the declining genetic diversity West->East in OTL meant plagues were worse in East Asia).

Apart from that it's hard to say because I don't think we can easily know how much of the culture of the Middle Neolithic (much less that survives later on) was passed on by migration.

(Even on appearance I'd guess in a world with less Neolithic migration ATL Europeans would look less like Near Eastern counterparts and be more conscious of it... but that's confounded by natural selection that probably adapted the Anatolian migrants who provide much of ancestry of OTL Europeans to living in Europe - cooler climates push towards some combination of taller, heavier, stockier, and probably lighter skin. So that may have been less a dramatic difference from OTL than we might think.).

More local domesticated plants and animals maybe?

 

[cmakk1012]

Here’s a weird, late one: a late Antique Berber invasion of Iberia. It could even have a similar set-up to the OTL invasion, where a Roman warlord in the midst of Germanic invasions calls in Berber mercenaries who then take over. Islam might be butterflied, or it might not ever take over an eventual unified Iberian-Maghrebi Berber region. Or it might get conquered by Arabs as IOTL—but the Iberian Berbers have already Christianized and mixed into the locals, making for a rather different Mozarabic culture.