AHC:Delay the European Imperialism in India and South East Asia

Is there a way to delay the Europeans from creating colonies and occupying territories in India and South East Asia until 1600 AD.
 

katchen

Banned
Perhaps Tamerlane invades Europe and goes all the way to Spain. I doubt if his conquests would have endured, but it would have taken 50-100 years for Europe to throw off his Muslim yoke. And it could butterfly all kinds of things. Like the extent of Ottoman conquests too.
 
The best way to slow things down is not to allow perminant settlements, as the Chinese did before the Opium wars. All non-Chinese had to leave Canton after the trading season was over.

If this was extended to other Asia states then empire would have been more expensive and slower.
 
The two major ways as I see it are thus;

1. Have the route around Africa and eventually to India take a little longer to be discovered, you could'nt prevent it from being so for a really long time, the Europeans were very keen on finding a new route to India afterall, but it could be prevented a decade or two.

2. Have more wars in Western Europe causing England, Portugal and Spain to be distracted, busy and to financially pressed to fund exploration; again this would'nt prevent it forever, but it could buy you a few decades.
 
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The two major ways as I see it are thus;

1. Have the route around Africa and eventually to India take a little longer to be discovered, you could'nt prevent it from being so for a really long time, the Europeans were very keen on finding a new route to India afterall, but it could be prevented a decade or two.

2. Have more wars in Western Europe causing England, Portugal and Spain to be distracted, busy and financially pressed to fund exploration; again this would'nt prevent it forever, but it could buy you a few decades.
I think a Castile-Portugal union would be better for that scenario and a war between France and Aragon where in Castile-Portugal is dragged into and a resurgent Marinid Morrocco that converts the rulers of Congo to Islam.
 

ingemann

Banned
The Norse colonise America, so the Portuguese decides instead of finding a alternative route to India, they want to find a alternative route to Vinland. With the Portuguese breaking the Danish monopol on trade with the new world, they become rich and focus on this trade route. The route to the Indian Ocean are only discovered in the 1590ties.

This give us a century more before contact is made between India and Europe.
 
The question is how it would happen?

If they really wanted to break it they could put their resources behind it; the Merchantile Republics two major advantages were that no on ever challenged them and they controlled various strategic territories and ports.
 
Delay the defeat of the Muslim armies in Spain and Portugaul. The Christians were not going any where until they got the Muslims out. Essentually you have to give the Ottoman Empire a reason to assist them while making it advantagous to do so. The need to help the Ilberian Muslims needs to be larger than the need to conquer Constantinople. How you do that, I do not know.
 
Delay the defeat of the Muslim armies in Spain and Portugaul. The Christians were not going any where until they got the Muslims out. Essentually you have to give the Ottoman Empire a reason to assist them while making it advantagous to do so. The need to help the Ilberian Muslims needs to be larger than the need to conquer Constantinople. How you do that, I do not know.

The Ottoman Empire did'nt come into existance until 1299 and did'nt have any capability of assisting anyone outside of Anatolia and the Southern Balkans until the mid-14th century.

The Reconquista was all but finished by 1300, with the last bit, the small Emirate of Granada lasting as long as it did only because they'd made themselves a Vassal of Castille.
 
Delay the defeat of the Muslim armies in Spain and Portugaul. The Christians were not going any where until they got the Muslims out. Essentually you have to give the Ottoman Empire a reason to assist them while making it advantagous to do so. The need to help the Ilberian Muslims needs to be larger than the need to conquer Constantinople. How you do that, I do not know.
This means a christian defeat in the Las Navas de Tolosa.
 
The best way to slow things down is not to allow perminant settlements, as the Chinese did before the Opium wars. All non-Chinese had to leave Canton after the trading season was over.

If this was extended to other Asia states then empire would have been more expensive and slower.

The difference is that most other Asian states find the Portuguese (and later the Dutch) too useful to want to just expel them like that. Before 1650 or so most European presence in Asia was in the form of small trading stations (with the exceptions of the Portuguese in Goa and Malacca and the Dutch in Ceylon and later Malacca)
 
The best way to slow things down is not to allow perminant settlements, as the Chinese did before the Opium wars. All non-Chinese had to leave Canton after the trading season was over.

If this was extended to other Asia states then empire would have been more expensive and slower.
Actually, I was asking is to prevent the Europeans from colonizing/occupying any Asian territory not just Europeans having bases in Asia.
 

katchen

Banned
I think only a resurgent, colonizing Japan or strong refugee Koxinga-Taiwan State could keep that happening. And then Luzon would belong to THEM as THEIR colony.
It's hard to win.
 
I think only a resurgent, colonizing Japan or strong refugee Koxinga-Taiwan State could keep that happening. And then Luzon would belong to THEM as THEIR colony.
It's hard to win.

Koxinga postdates European colonisation- the Ming remnant expelled the Dutch form Formosa.
 

katchen

Banned
True. If the Europeans are delayed long enough, the Ming remnants become a bigger factor in Southeast Asia.And if the Ch'ing don't have a Dutch fleet to carry them to Taiwan, the Ming Remnant is likely to stay a factor in Southeast Asia for a lot longer.
 
True. If the Europeans are delayed long enough, the Ming remnants become a bigger factor in Southeast Asia.And if the Ch'ing don't have a Dutch fleet to carry them to Taiwan, the Ming Remnant is likely to stay a factor in Southeast Asia for a lot longer.

I think the fall of Ming might be butterflied or delayed by delaying European contact.
 
It depends what you mean by "imperialism". Initially it was as if the Europeans were on a par with the local regimes and fighting for essentially equal rights to trade, access etc. For this they needed trading stations, but this is not imperialism in the 19th century fashion.

IMHO if you prevent Clive's conquest of Bengal you are pretty much there for India, as Britain and France will be operating from small bases, and generally through local alliances.

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
It depends what you mean by "imperialism". Initially it was as if the Europeans were on a par with the local regimes and fighting for essentially equal rights to trade, access etc. For this they needed trading stations, but this is not imperialism in the 19th century fashion.
Well, most of those trading agreements involved did involve a bit of force on the side of the Europeans and, at least for the smaller principalities, unfavourable conditions for the locals. But yeah, it was more along the lines of heavy-handed economic agreements (with a bit of subjugation involved to dominate the trade of specific resources like nutmeg) than out-right conquest. The reasons the Dutch replaced the Portuguese in the East Indies post 1600 was because the Dutch got help from the natives who were thoroughly unpleased with their trade agreements, although the Dutch quite quickly turned out to not be much better. Quite a bit worse most of the time, in fact.

The real issue that local leaders had is that they were smaller and more divided than the Europeans, and weren't as good at pitching them off against each-other as the Europeans were at capitalising wars between 'local' principalities. The more united realms could often resist trade agreements that were too unfavourable for them.

Also, most rulers ruled from the inland and didn't much care for sea trade and who controlled the ports, which is a factor that shouldn't be downplayed.
 
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