AHC: Delay the discovery of the Americas for as long as possible

- Keep Byzantine around much longer, perhaps even better if not Islam.
- Succesful Mongol invasion to Europe.
- More devastating Black Death.
 
It's going to be hard to delay it further than the mid-XVIth century at latest : you had european ships wandering the Altantic in constantly greater numbers, especially in southern Atlantic Ocean bordering Africa, where Portuguese and Castillan ships traded and explored the coasts (but as well in Northern Atlantic, with French, English and Hanseatic seafare).

You'd need a significant luck, or lack thereof, to prevent sighting of American coast, or ignoring the favourable winds and streams.
 
It's going to be hard to delay it further than the mid-XVIth century at latest : you had european ships wandering the Altantic in constantly greater numbers, especially in southern Atlantic Ocean bordering Africa, where Portuguese and Castillan ships traded and explored the coasts (but as well in Northern Atlantic, with French, English and Hanseatic seafare).

You'd need a significant luck, or lack thereof, to prevent sighting of American coast, or ignoring the favourable winds and streams.
Unless, of course, there's some total disaster that sets Europe back a couple of centuries some time before.

But, yeah, with a PoD of, say 1400, it's probably impossible to delay the 'discovery' by more than a decade or so.

After all, Cabot sailed for England in 1497, and various fishermen were probably already on the Grand Banks (but keeping their fishing grounds secret) before Columbus sailed.

Heck, even a major disaster after 1400 might cause the discovery to be ADVANCED as some mariners flee the disaster in Europe to the fabled lands of Hy Brasil/ Tir nan Og/ Vinland/ ....
 
Delay the last ice age and the formation of the Bering land bridge. Anything after about 40,000 BCE is too late.
Quite. That's a good point, and why I put 'discovery' in quotes, since the Americas had been actually discovered some 12+kya.
But I'm pretty sure the OP meant 'by Europeans' and 'sustained' (since Vinland existed briefly).
 
I would look into something that reduced the amount of trees that could give lumber for ships in western Europe. If people are worried about running out of wood then cost of ships would be higher and people would not be as willing to take chances on exploring the unknown.
 
iirc the Reconquista is part of why Columbus' voyage took place when it did. maybe it could be delayed by a persisting Muslim Iberia?
 
- Keep Byzantine around much longer, perhaps even better if not Islam.

Unless you're positing a Byzantium-wank, whereby all of Western Europe is ruled from Constantinople, then I've never found this a compelling way to discourage Atlantic maritime activities. Who cares if the guys sitting on all the trade routes are Muslim or Christian, if your motivation is that they're sitting on those trade routes and you want to get around them?
 
Unless you're positing a Byzantium-wank, whereby all of Western Europe is ruled from Constantinople, then I've never found this a compelling way to discourage Atlantic maritime activities. Who cares if the guys sitting on all the trade routes are Muslim or Christian, if your motivation is that they're sitting on those trade routes and you want to get around them?

Precisely. When the first Portuguese explorers came back from India, the King of Portugal crowed about getting one over Venice, not the Ottomans or Mamelukes.
 

PhilippeO

Banned
Delay back development of Iberian maritime technology. Delay Reconquista. make Hispanic monarchy uninterested in maritime matter. Stronger Arabs presence in Atalntic. etc.
 
Precisely. When the first Portuguese explorers came back from India, the King of Portugal crowed about getting one over Venice, not the Ottomans or Mamelukes.
True, but most of the explorers come from, or were descended from inhabitants of, Italy. With it Italy under Byzantium, it no longer has tonnes of independent traders who emigrate to other countries. This could put off the discovery qite abit.
 
Did anyone remember the Danish Tir nan Og/ Vinland/ by the 1410s or was it simply a legend by this point?

Greenlanders knew what and where Vinland was until the moment they died out/fled. Didrik Pining might have visited what is now Canada in the 1470s when he explored Greenland. But like the Basque and others who visited the New World, presumably there was no need to note it. It's an inhospitable coast full of people who should probably be avoided.

I would look into something that reduced the amount of trees that could give lumber for ships in western Europe. If people are worried about running out of wood then cost of ships would be higher and people would not be as willing to take chances on exploring the unknown.

Didn't the King of Portugal, Dinis I, plant a large forest for shipbuilding? Not to mention, you can't physically run out of wood for ships in Europe, since you'd just drive up the price of wood and make the Scandinavian countries stronger (and they definitely aren't going to be running out of wood). I'd argue this could strengthen the need for exploration--can you use rainforest wood in West Africa for ships? And more trade with West Africa by sea equals Brazil will be discovered, and eventually the rest of the New World.

And that includes the Grand Banks area, where the lack of cod from there because of expensive ships will drive up the price of cod. And it's evident that the land by the Grand Banks contains an insane amount of trees which can be used for shipbuilding.

True, but most of the explorers come from, or were descended from inhabitants of, Italy. With it Italy under Byzantium, it no longer has tonnes of independent traders who emigrate to other countries. This could put off the discovery qite abit.

Doesn't necessarily mean a delay in exploration. See João Vaz Corte-Real. And getting Italy under Byzantium without a very early POD is ridiculous.
 
Didn't the King of Portugal, Dinis I, plant a large forest for shipbuilding? Not to mention, you can't physically run out of wood for ships in Europe, since you'd just drive up the price of wood and make the Scandinavian countries stronger (and they definitely aren't going to be running out of wood). I'd argue this could strengthen the need for exploration--can you use rainforest wood in West Africa for ships? And more trade with West Africa by sea equals Brazil will be discovered, and eventually the rest of the New World.

And that includes the Grand Banks area, where the lack of cod from there because of expensive ships will drive up the price of cod. And it's evident that the land by the Grand Banks contains an insane amount of trees which can be used for shipbuilding.

I'm not sure about the King planting a forest but I think I remember hearing about that will have to check. My thoughts with the trees is exploration will require funding and manpower and desire to happen, if you can cut off one of those you should be able to delay at least. My thoughts on the limited shipbuilding trees in the West would force them to be more careful with ships as a more limited resource while the presence of forests to the east would focus attention that way. A combo would probably work better, less wood available combined with a reconqiista that has a divided Iberian peninsula so that none of the kingdom's have the funds to support explorers would work better. Still have to slow down England going the Northern route past Greenland though.
 
Portugal and Spain conquered fully by Muslims, France destabilized for centuries, England never invaded by the Normans.

All the major Atlantic powers with the centralization and stability to explore therefore cannot.
 

Zachariah

Banned
How about a TL in which the European Christians win control over the Arab region, retaining full access to the Silk Road, and thereby negating the driving impetus behind naval trade between Europe and the Orient? Without any real reasons to set sail across the Atlantic, and without knowledge of the Americas' existence (and with knowledge of the circumference of the earth, and the distance of the long and arduous voyage across the world ocean), there's a decent chance that the 'discovery' of the Americas could be delayed until the 17th or even the 18th century.
 
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