AHC: Danish Ceylon

[Hvalrossen]

Have Denmark or Denmark-Norway controll Ceylon. Ceylon is today know as Sri Lanka.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sri_Lanka

Edit: (added)
Some links related to Danish activity in the region.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danish_India
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danish_East_India_Company

 

[JonasResende]

Didn't Denmark control the Nicobar Islands at one point? Not to mention there were a couple of Danish posts in India (Tranquebar, I think). So, it shouldn't be anything outside the normal. Getting them to keep Ceylon when Britain and France are jockeying for power in India next door might be difficult.

 

[Mina-van-Mako]

Didn't Denmark control the Nicobar Islands at one point? Not to mention there were a couple of Danish posts in India (Tranquebar, I think). So, it shouldn't be anything outside the normal. Getting them to keep Ceylon when Britain and France are jockeying for power in India next door might be difficult.

Doesn't it make a perfect occasion to "Congolize" Ceylon and offer it to a tierce State ?

 

[Koprulu Mustafa Pasha]

View attachment 393240
Have Denmark or Denmark-Norway controll Ceylon. Ceylon is today know as Sri Lanka.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sri_Lanka

The Dutch entered the East because of the trade embargo of the Spanish. And Spain at the time also controlled the Portuguese possessions and thus tradegoods.

Have Spain go batshit crazy and block embargo on all protestant states. And the Danes might get interested just as the Dutch.

 

[Hvalrossen]

Doesn't it make a perfect occasion to "Congolize" Ceylon and offer it to a tierce State ?

"Congolize" as in what?

 

[BellaGerant]

"Congolize" as in what?

Like with Belgium and the Congo, hand over a highly contested area to a weaker neutral party so as to remove the potential colonial competition that might lead to war.

Unfortunately with Ceylon, the Scramble for Africa involved more than 2 parties and the desire to avoid war wasn't the greatest pre-Napoleonic Wars as compared to post-Napoleonic Wars.

 

[Hvalrossen]

Like with Belgium and the Congo, hand over a highly contested area to a weaker neutral party so as to remove the potential colonial competition that might lead to war.

Unfortunately with Ceylon, the Scramble for Africa involved more than 2 parties and the desire to avoid war wasn't the greatest pre-Napoleonic Wars as compared to post-Napoleonic Wars.

It could potentially also refer to the kingdom of Congo becoming a vassal of the Portogueese. Which is why i asked, i am not sure what the term "Congolize" means?

 

[Hvalrossen]

The success of Dutch and English traders in the 17th century spice trade was a source of envy among Danish and Norwegian merchants.[6] On March 17, 1616, Christian IV the King of Denmark-Norway, issued a charter creating a Danish East India Company with a monopoly on trade between Denmark-Norway and Asia for 12 years. It would take an additional two years before sufficient capital had been raised to finance the expedition, perhaps due to lack of confidence on the part of Danish investors. It took the arrival of the Dutch merchant and colonial administrator, Marchelis de Boshouwer, in 1618 to provide the impetus for the first voyage. Marcelis arrived as an envoy (or at least claimed to do so) for the emperor of Ceylon, Cenerat Adassin, seeking military assistance against the Portuguese and promising a monopoly on all trade with the island.[citation needed] His appeal had been rejected by his countrymen, but it convinced the Danish King.[7] First expedition (1618–1620) The first expedition set sail in 1618 under Admiral Ove Gjedde, taking two years to reach Ceylon and losing more than half their crew on the way. Upon arriving in May 1620, they found the Emperor no longer desiring any foreign assistance — having made a peace agreement with the Portuguese three years earlier. Nor, to the dismay of the Admiral, was the Emperor the sole, or even the "most distinguished king in this land".[8] Failing to get the Dano-Norwegian-Ceylonese trade contract confirmed, the Dano-Norwegians briefly occupied the Koneswaram temple before receiving word from their trade director, Robert Crappe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danish_India

If Ove Gjedde(representative of Denmark-Norway) had managed to sign a deal with the king of Ceylon, could that maybe lead to Danish domination of the island sometime in the future?

 

[Koprulu Mustafa Pasha]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danish_India

If Ove Gjedde(representative of Denmark-Norway) had managed to sign a deal with the king of Ceylon, could that maybe lead to Danish domination of the island sometime in the future?

Possible but it requires an intensive interest in the region and trade as well as more care for the Navy. On the level of the Dutch. The Dutch had to fight several wars to save their position in the international trade.

Ideally is if the Danish search for the route to the East earlier. Preferably by the 1590s.

 

[Maoistic]

I've always wondered why the Scandinavian kingdoms became so weak after the 11th century.

 

[Koprulu Mustafa Pasha]

I've always wondered why the Scandinavian kingdoms became so weak after the 11th century.

Define weak

 

[FillyofDelphi]

I've always wondered why the Scandinavian kingdoms became so weak after the 11th century.

There WERE no real centralized Scandinavian Kingdoms that far prior to the 11th century. As for comparing them to the Vikings, that was more a case of their victims getting strong enough to defend their territories combined with the advent of the little ice age ending the agricultural boom of previous centuries that gave Scandinavia the population to compete with the warmer, more hospitable continental Europe.

 

[Southern pride]

The most plausible way for a Danish Ceylon is to do what happened with Belgium in the Congo. Meaning handing it over to a weaker neutral power to avoid war.

 

[Maoistic]

Define weak

Lack of importance in the rest of Europe, being on the defensive, being of medium size, not having any empire until the 17th century. Denmark and Sweden re-ascended somewhat starting with Gustavus Adolfus, but Sweden's ascent was short-lived and Denmark only managed to keep Greenland, which is enormous, yes, but still nothing comparable to the Dutch, British and French empires, nor to the United States. They also kept Greenland purely because Canada was bigger, closer, more navigable and not as cold, not because of any actual Danish effort.

 

[Hvalrossen]

I've always wondered why the Scandinavian kingdoms became so weak after the 11th century.

Scandinavia was not weak. Sweden for example dominated Northern Europe for a period.

Allthough one factor that may have restricted Scandinavian expansion could be the regional cold war. Sweden and Denmark-Norway fought many wars and when they were not at war, they were suspicious of each other. Denmark-Norway was vulnerable to Swedish military, while Sweden was weak as a naval power. Swedens geography also made it's ships more vulnerable. Denmark-Norway on the other hand had more favorable geography for becoming a sea power.

 

[CaedmonCousland]

I've always wondered why the Scandinavian kingdoms became so weak after the 11th century.

Part succession issues, part inter fighting, part the declining climate by the 15th century, and part Hanseatic trade domination.

The second one is probably the big one. The Hanseatic League used conflict between the Nordic countries to gain concessions and trade privileges, which really hit the Nordic countries in their navies and foreign trade capabilities. The failure of the Kalmar Union turned an attempt to curtail Hanseatic League dominance into a fight between Denmark and Sweden that never quite ended till Scandinavianism became a thing. From 1450-1750, the attention and resources of both countries were devoted to beating the other.

As long as Denmark-Norway has to worry about Sweden's constant attempts to break their control over the Baltic, and after the Swedes did this Danish revanchism was a thing, Denmark cannot practically devote the amount of ships and resources to India to become a major player there. There's no point in gaining Ceylon if it causes the Denmark of 1616 to lose Skaneland or Norway.

This is actually a decent time. The Kalmar War recently ended. Change its ending a bit, don't have the Danish undergo their failed invasion towards Stockholm and instead make a better peace with Sweden after taking Alvsborg and Gullberg. Gustav Adolphus pays the canon ransom for the return of these cities, and Sweden gets its canon exemption from the Sound tax. A peace mid-1612 prevents some of Christian IV's financial difficulties the next year of failed warfare cost him. Also give Christian a more consistent foreign policy. Don't have him seek to limit Sweden. If he joins the Thirty Years War, have him do it simultaneously with Sweden and with proper coordination. This avoids the Battle of Lutter, and working with Sweden probably means a later entry to the war. This allows the devotion of more national resources to the DEIC at first. Neither England nor the Dutch can interfere as long as the European conflict makes them greatly desire Danish aid for the Protestants. Then better administration by the DEIC allows it to better secure itself.

 

[Koprulu Mustafa Pasha]

I think population was also a reason why Scandinavia could not hold the Russians, British or Germans by. I guess Sweden had 3 to 4 million people in the 18th century. Not really comparable with Russia, Britain and the HRE.

 

[Hvalrossen]

I think population was also a reason why Scandinavia could not hold the Russians, British or Germans by. I guess Sweden had 3 to 4 million people in the 18th century. Not really comparable with Russia, Britain and the HRE.

Population size does not always turn into power or abillity. Also geography does limit how different regions and/or states interact with each other. Scandinavian powers might be able to resist German and Russian influence, allthough i think it would be more difficult to resist British influence.