AHC: Daimyo in the Japanese Empire

AHC: Starting at the Meiji Restoration, have the Japanese Empire be a Federal Empire, where Daimyo and Samurai still exist as land lords and soldiers, but all serve and fight for the Emperor instead of the Shogun
 
AHC: Starting at the Meiji Restoration, have the Japanese Empire be a Federal Empire, where Daimyo and Samurai still exist as land lords and soldiers, but all serve and fight for the Emperor instead of the Shogun
You need to completely change what they view as modern. They modernized the state on European lines, and Germany didn't yet exist to show off a state that is both modern and feudal, so they followed the British model, where Feudalism was gone but nobility was still around.
 
I won't say that this is ASB because it isn't, but it would be quite hard to arrive to this scenario.

Why?

Well, the main forces behind the Meiji restoration and the modernization of the country were decided to finish up with the daimyo system.
The country was so decentralized in reality and that was seen as a major weakness for the country, in their eyes, only with a centralized state they would be able to resist the Western Imperialism.
And you must also remember, in the beginning those forces were also traditionalist, you could even say that the Shogun and the fudai daimyos were more pro-modernization at the start of this complex period of the Japanese history.

However, these clans behind the modernization (mainly Satsuma and Choshu clans) eventually learnt that Japan needed to modernize in order to withstand the Western Countries.
After getting to that point, you can understand that keeping the samurais will be quite hard if the country starts the modernization process and also keeping it so decentralized.

Their views are quite interesting as they were very nationalist but they were also capable of understanding the challenges that Japan had.
So, as I said, it isn't ASB but it's a bit complex to think a plausible scenario where this can happen.
 
AHC: Starting at the Meiji Restoration, have the Japanese Empire be a Federal Empire, where Daimyo and Samurai still exist as land lords and soldiers, but all serve and fight for the Emperor instead of the Shogun

It's utterly impossible, at least with a Meiji POD, with an alternate Shogunate POD with no Sakoku equivalent, it really depends on what happens with Japan itself. All it would do is recreate the problems of the Shogunate without the Shogunate, as the Daimyo of the domains would free to keep their armies and run the provinces as they have. As for serving as soldiers, that can't exist if the feudal system is removed, the fact the samurai are now bureaucrats aside. The Daimyo and samurai would have to serve more akin to the nobility in the British or Prussian army.
 
I wanted to return to this, but what if The Meiji kept the Han System, where daiymio kept their own Dominion, but pay lip service to the Emperor
 
I wanted to return to this, but what if The Meiji kept the Han System, where daiymio kept their own Dominion, but pay lip service to the Emperor
That's the Shogunate without the Shogun, basically. It basically betrays all that the Boshin War was fought for in that regard. Expect Meiji to be overthrown in a coup, and some cadet branch Royal willing to modernize becomes the new Emperor.
 
That's the Shogunate without the Shogun, basically. It basically betrays all that the Boshin War was fought for in that regard. Expect Meiji to be overthrown in a coup, and some cadet branch Royal willing to modernize becomes the new Emperor.
Was under the impression that the whole Sonno Joi(Revere the emperor and expel the barbarians) thing was,for the majority of those who fought in it,essentially a Shogunate with the emperor replacing the Shogun,which was why the veterans felt betrayed and rebelled in Satsuma later on when the government tried to modernise the country.
 
Last edited:
Many of the daimyo willingly gave up their feudal domains in exchange for shares in new industrial or agricultural enterprises. Less responsibility, more profit.
 
Making the Bakufu reform go differently predates the Meiji but get the Satsuma Rebellion potent enough (Looking at France, Spain, and maybe Germany) and it may shake the Meiji somewhat. There was intermarriage between the Mitsuhada and Imperial lines, Meiji had at least some claim to the Shogunate as well as the throne itself.
 
That's the Shogunate without the Shogun, basically. It basically betrays all that the Boshin War was fought for in that regard. Expect Meiji to be overthrown in a coup, and some cadet branch Royal willing to modernize becomes the new Emperor.

The Boshin War was fought over how the country was going to modernize not if it would.

What if, they kept the shogunate, but it becomes ceremonial, much like how the throne previously was. So they basically switch spots.

One idea I've always liked would have been reforming the Shogunate to be an elected position from among the Daimyo. No idea how likely it is though

The problem with keeping the Shogunate is that it is a relic of an outdated age by this point. The Shogun was meant to be the head of the military, of what would become a gradually feudal state, and that did not change by the Tokugawa. The Tokugawa Shogunate still relied on force and allied clans to maintain power, just like the Ashikaga and Early Hojo Shoguns before them. This was a feature and not a bug, especially because the Tokugawa like the Ashikaga gained power by an alliance of clans, and not their own military power. Mind you Tokugawa made far better strides to contain the feudal lords that previous Shogunates.

A post-feudal Tokugawa Shogunate this late would essentially be in the danger as the Daimyo ruled the domains, and would more than likely retain their own armies, as the reach of the Shogun was always limited. The Shogunate would have to be reformed into something else but that requires either no Sakoku POD or an alternate Shogunate period.
 
Top