AHC: Czechoslovakia Lives!

In the world we all know and love, Czechoslovakia was born out of Versailles, divided by the Nazis, eaten by the Soviets, and divorced in Velvet.

But what if it could survive all of this intact to the modern day. I read stories that allowed Yugoslavia to survive, so this shouldn't be that much of a challenge.

The earliest POD is May 31, 1918, or the Pittsburgh Agreement. Bonus points if you either have a POD after WW2 or allow Carpathian Ruthenia to remain part of the nation.

So, what say you?
 
Both freed and divorced in Velvet, John!

If the West stands behind the Czechs and doesn't cave in to the Nazis at Munich
and there is no subsequent Nazi takeover (perhaps WW2 gets butterflied away), perhaps we get a surviving Czechoslovakia. One not traumatized
by Occupation by the Nazis and Soviets, that would have been economically far stronger.

Another possibility---Don't blame Havel. Prevent Vaclav Klaus from becoming prime minister in 1992. Without him, a federated Czech-Slovak state
could have happened.
 
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My understanding is that no one really wanted a split, but the czechs wouldnt accept the amount of devolved power the slovaks demanded, and the slovaks couldnt accept the continuation of the more centralized status quo.

Otoh, the particular parties involved at the time made things worse, and i suspect a continued czechoslovakia is entirely possible. Consider canada and belgium. Both have been threatening to split up for decades, but we keep muddling through. No ones happy with the status quo, and the are continued attempts to split but none has, yet, succeeded. I could see that with czechoslovakia.
 
So, in other words, it was only really a matter of the leaders keeping the union, since the people overall wanted to stay united.
 
My understanding is that no one really wanted a split, but the czechs wouldnt accept the amount of devolved power the slovaks demanded, and the slovaks couldnt accept the continuation of the more centralized status quo.

Otoh, the particular parties involved at the time made things worse, and i suspect a continued czechoslovakia is entirely possible. Consider canada and belgium. Both have been threatening to split up for decades, but we keep muddling through. No ones happy with the status quo, and the are continued attempts to split but none has, yet, succeeded. I could see that with czechoslovakia.

cant really compare belgium and CZ. belgium has 2 ethnic groups, flemish and walloons. CZ has czechs, slovaks, hungarians, austrians?germans?, ukrainians, some poles. it's like a mini austria-hungary.
 
So, in other words, it was only really a matter of the leaders keeping the union, since the people overall wanted to stay united.

No.

Different leaders might have handled things differently so that the union could remain, but there were substantial differences between the Czechs and Slovaks. If they could get what they wanted, they would have preferred to stay in the union. Getting what they wanted if it meant leaving the union was still acceptable, if not preferred. But it was preferrable to staying in union, but not getting what they wanted.

So dividing may not have been a preferred outcome, but it was one acceptable to both sides, including the people.
 

MSZ

Banned
I'll repost my anwser from a different thread.

For Czechoslovakia to keep 1918 borders would require butterflying away not only Munich, but WW2 as well, so that it can keep Transcarpathia. Federalizing Czechoslovakia on the begining of its existence would be a good start, so to satisfy the Slovaks demand for self rule, as well as diminish the pressure from the Germans, Poles and Hungarians. So lets say that the first constitution from 1920 sticks to the early declarations of the Czechoslovak Committee in Paris, and the country forms as a federation of Bohemia, Moravia, Sudetenland, Tsesin, Slovakia, Transcarpathia - thus the Czechs and Slovaks are still the most important nations of the state, while the others have more self-rule. This might be achieved by having Stefanik survive and rallying the Slovaks during the period of the country's formation, demanding autonomy for Slovakia, leading to Prague folding to his demands, as well as the demands of the Germans and Poles.

Without the Tsesin issue, and probably without Benes in charge, Czechoslovakia stands a better chance at forming an alliance with the other countries of central Europe - for example, allowing for the unification of the Little Entente and the Warsaw Accord. If ITTL Hitler still comes to power, Munich is different as the Sudeten Germans movement is weaker, their demands for autonomy met (and many possibly prefering a democratic Czechoslovakia to fascist Germany). Czechoslovakia also has much firmer guarantees. So the leadership refuses German claims, Hitler starts the war and loses Fall Grun. Czechoslovakia survives, the victory over the Germans allowing it to maintain unity, national ethos being something like "together we can defeat anyone", "brotherhood and unnty", etc.
 
cant really compare belgium and CZ. belgium has 2 ethnic groups, flemish and walloons. CZ has czechs, slovaks, hungarians, austrians?germans?, ukrainians, some poles. it's like a mini austria-hungary.
Not really, in 1992 it was deal of Czech and Slovaks. Hungarians could form some form of opposition, but even them would probably go more for Czechoslovakia, then independent Slovakia. If there was plebiscit about split in 1992. Czechoslovakia would stay together. Klaus and Meciar. Prime minister of Czech Republic and Slovak republic decided. I believe, in 1992 prime minister of Czechoslovak Federal government was Slovak. After it was decided about split, he resigned.
Actually, it is funny, but there are indication he was some kind of family from my grandma side. :D
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marián_Čalfa
 
Not really, in 1992 it was deal of Czech and Slovaks. Hungarians could form some form of opposition, but even them would probably go more for Czechoslovakia, then independent Slovakia. If there was plebiscit about split in 1992. Czechoslovakia would stay together. Klaus and Meciar. Prime minister of Czech Republic and Slovak republic decided. I believe, in 1992 prime minister of Czechoslovak Federal government was Slovak. After it was decided about split, he resigned.
Actually, it is funny, but there are indication he was some kind of family from my grandma side. :D
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marián_Čalfa

i was thinking about the first czechoslovakia, not the second :rolleyes:

you can "save" the second by saving the USSR - czechs and slovaks would stay happily married at gunpoint.
 
i was thinking about the first czechoslovakia, not the second :rolleyes:

you can "save" the second by saving the USSR - czechs and slovaks would stay happily married at gunpoint.

Not really, you can save second by holding on constitution and arange plebiscite. Popular vote would keep Czechoslovakia together.
 
Consider canada and belgium. Both have been threatening to split up for decades, but we keep muddling through. No ones happy with the status quo, and the are continued attempts to split but none has, yet, succeeded. I could see that with czechoslovakia.

I am firmly opposed to Canada and Belgium splitting up. They have such a proud shared tradition!
 
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