AHC: Czechoslovakia does not split in 1992

As it says in the tin. What would it take to have a Czechoslovak state today? What would be the effects? POD is just after the 1989 revolutions.
 
From what I understand those in power in both parts would need to make an effort to stay together, they just decided not to be arsed and didn't.

I think you'd need to adress some issues in how parts were developed and attitudes coming from that.

But I don't think it's impossible task, it just needs some work and belief that staying together will benefit both parts in long run because of size.
 
Perhaps have Austria, East Germny, and West Germany unite and retain the claims the West Germans had to part of Silesia due to that Oder-Neisse Line. That could scare the Czechs into wanting to keep Slovakia around at any costs. The possibility of some Stalinists keeping power in one of the Warsaw Pact countries might also tell them they should hang together or separately. Maybe Yugoslavia collapses early and it gets them to decide to not try that?
 
I don't know is keeping of Czechoslovakia any possible with 1989 POD. Might be possible after WW2 anyway. Perhaps you keep USSR around and strong enogh keeping its vassal states.
 
Perhaps have Austria, East Germny, and West Germany unite and retain the claims the West Germans had to part of Silesia due to that Oder-Neisse Line. That could scare the Czechs into wanting to keep Slovakia around at any costs. The possibility of some Stalinists keeping power in one of the Warsaw Pact countries might also tell them they should hang together or separately. Maybe Yugoslavia collapses early and it gets them to decide to not try that?

The whole thing about Germany reuniting with Austria and demanding the pre-war borders back would have meant that most if not all of the post-WW2 treaties involving Germany and Austria are down the drain. It's definitely the ASB country.
 
The whole thing about Germany reuniting with Austria and demanding the pre-war borders back would have meant that most if not all of the post-WW2 treaties involving Germany and Austria are down the drain. It's definitely the ASB country.

It wasn't about demanding land back, simply for them to keep up with the border dispute for the Oder-Neisse. And I didn't say it was likely, just that it would give the Cezks a reason to want to keep Slovakia at all costs.
 
My understanding is that the Czechs wanted a fairly tight federation, whereas the Slovaks wanted a loose confederation. For neither side was complete separation their first choice. But for both of them it was their *second* choice, in preference to what the other side wanted.

Perhaps the last chance for a compromise was the Milovy draft treaty. It "was approved by the Presidium of the Czech National Council 'as a basic platform' for talks on the final version of an agreement. It was rejected by the Slovak presidium a day later by a ten to ten vote, with eleven votes required for approval." https://books.google.com/books?id=1UYYMn4GKzIC&pg=PA172 It is tempting to say "if only one more Slovak had voted for it..." But Milan Zemko, who cast the decisive negative vote, has insisted that the accord never had any chance of being accepted by the full Slovak National Council. https://books.google.com/books?id=LllN7rChpeYC&pg=PA22 https://books.google.com/books?id=1UYYMn4GKzIC&pg=PA173
 
Perhaps have Austria, East Germny, and West Germany unite and retain the claims the West Germans had to part of Silesia due to that Oder-Neisse Line. That could scare the Czechs into wanting to keep Slovakia around at any costs. The possibility of some Stalinists keeping power in one of the Warsaw Pact countries might also tell them they should hang together or separately. Maybe Yugoslavia collapses early and it gets them to decide to not try that?
I would say that even Gorbachev wouldn't be stupid enough to allow Germany to unify under this condition and he would have the full support of Britain and France on this issue.
Austria joining Germany after 1945 is nearly impossible, they have a separate identity today.
And how could Stalinists remain in power when all of them had been removed in the 50s (well, there was Hoxca, but he was hardly threatening)?
 
How would this happen, that the authorities choose this over deciding things themselves? This is interesting.
Isn't it? And I don't know. There was not enough pressure from any political party across Czechoslovakia and I guess people just let politicians to ride it. Maybe sick of political upheaval since 1989. Maybe all habits to sit back and watch from communist era. Since then Slovakia had shitload of referendums on so much crap it is unbelievable but one most important never come. Of course it would be hard to keep both nation satisfied if Federation was saved. Czechoslovakia would be changing governments probably very often.
 

TinyTartar

Banned
Perhaps have Austria, East Germny, and West Germany unite and retain the claims the West Germans had to part of Silesia due to that Oder-Neisse Line. That could scare the Czechs into wanting to keep Slovakia around at any costs. The possibility of some Stalinists keeping power in one of the Warsaw Pact countries might also tell them they should hang together or separately. Maybe Yugoslavia collapses early and it gets them to decide to not try that?

A united Germany and Austria would make the Russians go apeshit, Thatcher would not be happy, and even Bush might have some reservations. That was not going to happen.

Even if it did, a Germany that immediately starts making land claims is a Germany that is not going to last long.

This seems ASB in my view.

Czech fears about the Germans were real enough already, but the split with Slovakia could have been accomplished even with those fears amplified. There is a ton of bad blood there.
 
Isn't it? And I don't know. There was not enough pressure from any political party across Czechoslovakia and I guess people just let politicians to ride it. Maybe sick of political upheaval since 1989. Maybe all habits to sit back and watch from communist era. Since then Slovakia had shitload of referendums on so much crap it is unbelievable but one most important never come. Of course it would be hard to keep both nation satisfied if Federation was saved. Czechoslovakia would be changing governments probably very often.

Hmmm...

Frankly I have seen all "Soviet Union: New Union" TLs wherein Czechoslovakia adopts the federal system of a democratized Soviet Union, and abandons their differences. Would everyone explain this to me?

But since I'm talking about a TL where Czechoslovakia is still united but the Soviet Union still collapses, I think we should focus on this (TL where Czechoslovakia is still united and USSR still collapses).
 
A united Germany and Austria would make the Russians go apeshit, Thatcher would not be happy, and even Bush might have some reservations. That was not going to happen.

Even if it did, a Germany that immediately starts making land claims is a Germany that is not going to last long.

This seems ASB in my view.

Czech fears about the Germans were real enough already, but the split with Slovakia could have been accomplished even with those fears amplified. There is a ton of bad blood there.

No way in the world the US, UK, France, and the USSR will that German expansion there by gaining Austria. East Germany is OTL, but this? ASB.
 
Last edited:
If the country hadn't had a federal type system under communism they might remain United.
Not really. Slovaks were promised Federation before 1918. Slovaks needed to get something. If there is no federation during communist Slovakia may go even faster. Unless of course Czechoslovakia would go Swiss way.
 
Not really. Slovaks were promised Federation before 1918. Slovaks needed to get something. If there is no federation during communist Slovakia may go even faster. Unless of course Czechoslovakia would go Swiss way.

I think his point was a Leninist-style federation - states like the USSR, Socialist Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia were all on paper extremely loose confederations where sovereignty was based at the republic level. They all gave their republics the right to unilaterally secede and gave the federal government, on paper, very little power. So long as they were governed by one-party communist governments, they held together. But once one party rule fell apart, they quickly proved unworkable.

A federation that was from the start a bit more balanced towards the centre - as in most federations like the US, Canada, or Germany - could have survived.
 
I think his point was a Leninist-style federation - states like the USSR, Socialist Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia were all on paper extremely loose confederations where sovereignty was based at the republic level. They all gave their republics the right to unilaterally secede and gave the federal government, on paper, very little power. So long as they were governed by one-party communist governments, they held together. But once one party rule fell apart, they quickly proved unworkable.

A federation that was from the start a bit more balanced towards the centre - as in most federations like the US, Canada, or Germany - could have survived.

However US and Germany and also Canada except Quebec are basically one nation federations. ;)
 

Devvy

Donor
Czechoslovakia needs to quickly address the separate states of economy between Czechia (not sure if this name is correct, but the Czech side) and Slovakia, and also reform the federation to balance things out a bit, with a lot of legal aspects devolved. Problem is that while the citizens seemed to want Czechoslovakia to continue, the political powers that were didn't seem overly bothered about trying to make it work.

The only other thing I could suggest is that EU; the eastern states were determined to join the EU, and the EU wasn't overly keen on admitting all the states as it would exhaust the coffers and potentially largely shift political power. Maybe the EU mandates that Czechoslovakia stays together as a heavily devolved state, in order to reduce the amount of new member states, 1 less member to have to work with etc etc, use the Czechoslovak Parliament to pass EU law for both.
 
It wasn't about demanding land back, simply for them to keep up with the border dispute for the Oder-Neisse. And I didn't say it was likely, just that it would give the Cezks a reason to want to keep Slovakia at all costs.

You've forgotten about Germany reuniting with Austria which is a big no-no. This is basically what the Austrian State treaty of 1955 is about.
 
Top