AHC: Cult of Isis, replace Christianity

The temple of Isis on Philae was not closed down until the 6th century AD. There were communities all over the empire. I think there was a large community near Hadrian's Wall, so the idea of the religion surviving could not be that unbelievable. Suppose there were persecutions of the Isians, and martyrs go to their deaths leading the people becoming more devoted to the religion.

Some features of the religion could be:

-use of Sahidic Coptic as a religious language
-pilgrimage being a major part of the religion, not just to Philae, but to the various places along the Nile where Isis collected the pieces of Osiris' body
-European royal titles more Pharoanic-sounding like "Son of Horus" or something.
-falconry becoming more prestigious among the nobility and /or clergy.
 
http://neosalexandria.org/isis.htm <-Modern Day Worshippers views

It would also have very syncretic implications and still allow polytheistic. Isis was referred not only as the Queen of Heaven and all the Gods and Goddesses but she was equated as BEING practically all the goddesses known at the time.
http://neosalexandria.org/isis_history.htm


The Nile Flows into the Tiber
The Roman Senate was not amused with Ptolemy's attempt to craft a universal religion. When the cult of Isis swept into Rome via Hellenistic sailors and Egyptian emigrants, it became outstandingly popular with women and the lower classes, including slaves. Fearing a religious unification of the lower strata of Roman society, and fearing the loss of piety in the traditional Roman gods of the state, the Senate repeatedly placed restrictions on the new cult. Private chapels dedicated to Isis were ordered destroyed. When a Roman Consul found that the demolition team assigned to him were all members or sympathizers of the cult and refused to destroy their chapel, he had to remove his toga of state and do the deed himself.
Augustus found the cult "pornographic," though the cult was known to proscribe periods of sexual abstinence to its adherents. The real reason for Augustus' wrath was that the cult was linked to Egypt and thus the power base of his rival, Antony. Cleopatra had even gone so far to declare herself Isis reincarnated. Nonetheless, Augustus' scorn did little to stem popular opinion. Officials and servants of the imperial household were members of the cult. It seems even his own infamous daughter was a member; whether her belief was genuine or merely another aspect of her defiance against her father cannot be determined.
Tiberius, upon hearing of a sexual scandal involving the cult, had the offenders crucified and images of Isis cast into the Tiber. But much like Christianity, periodic and sporadic persecutions did nothing to stem the tide. What was death when one's deity promised salvation and resurrection?
As part of undoing the policies of Tiberius, Caligula legitimized the religion. Temples to Isis were permitted construction. Aspects of the Isiac festivals became public and part of the civil calendar (though there were still mysteries celebrated in private). It is also known that Caligula had an Egyptian chamberlain who exerted influence on the emperor and helped him progress in the mysteries of the goddess. Perhaps this even helped play a role in Caligula's infamous promotion of himself as an autocratic, Hellenistic-like ruler. Whatever the truth, Isis was now part of Roman paganism for good.
The emperor Vespasian became acquainted with the cult while serving in the Eastern legions, and seems to have adopted Isis and Serapis as his personal savior deities. Domitian owed his life to fleeing opponents in the garb of Isiac cultists, and continued the family's association with the cult.
Hadrian and Marcus Aurelius were friendly to the cult, but most likely not initiates. Commodus, on the other hand, shaved his head bald like the priests of Serapis. He used to beat those around him with a mask of Anubis that was common in the processions of the cult.
Septimus Severus was fascinated with the cult, and his son Caracalla dedicated a giant temple to Serapis that rivaled the one built to Jupiter, Rome's original patron god. The meaning was clear - the gods of the East that had once been maligned by the ruling classes of the Republic were now on equal footing with the traditional gods of the State. Among the common people, they were more important.
Stoic and Neoplatonic intellectuals tried to reinterpret the cult in terms of their own highbrow philosophies, with the deities of the cult serving as metaphors for great cosmic principles. While this may have held some influence in the literate classes, its doubtful it had any impact on the vast majority of followers. To the average person Isis was not a metaphor or concept; she was as real to her followers as the Virgin Mary, Mother of God, is to billions of Christians around the world today. More to the point, she performed much the same function.
The Un-Roman Roman cult
The Cult of Isis was, thanks to Ptolemy, Hellenized to a degree that the Roman mind could understand it, and yet still foreign enough to be exotic and alien.
Unlike most religious structures in the Roman world, the Iseum did not open to the streets or forum where public spectators could view the proceedings inside. The Iseum was walled off from the surrounding world, suggesting a space of inner sanctity. Even within its walls, there was a "sanctuary" much like modern monasteries where only clergy and the initiated could enter. In there rituals involving fire, water and incense were conducted in front of a sacred statuary of the deities concerned. This secret religious life that was set apart from the community and the State is what helped arouse the suspicions of the conservatives back in the days of the Republic.
Not much is known about the details of the inner workings of the mysteries, as they were by definition secret. Prospective initiates were called to the goddess by dreams and visions. Intense preparations of purification and meditation (and abstinence) were followed by exotic rites designed to recreate the myth of Isis and the resurrection of Osiris. By enduring these rituals, the adherent was reconciled to the magic of Isis and effectively granted a favorable afterlife. He or she was in a sense spiritually reborn in a manner common to Greco-Oriental savior religions.
But there were more public festivals too that didn't require initiation. The first was conducted on March 5th. In honor of Isis sailing the seas to find pieces of her lost husband, a colorful procession of costumed people, including especially sailors, marched to port and ritually blessed a boat. The second festival was held October 28th to November 3rd. This was an ancient passion play Again, costumed enactors took to the streets, this time to reenact the death and resurrection of Serapis. Roman conservatives complained the festival was too loud and colorful.
People also had private shrines to Isis and Serapis in their homes.
The subject of the ethics of the cult is a complicated one. We know that Egyptian culture as a whole was free with sexuality compared to Roman culture. Isis was in fact rather popular with courtesans and other such professions, and there are speculations that Isiac cults may have promoted a kind of "positive sexuality" among a more conservative Roman population. Augustus and Tiberius took this as proof of a "pornographic" cult. Yet the Isiac cult also demanded regular periods of sexual abstinence from its adherents for purposes of ritual purification, and even apparently courtesans readily submitted to these observances. Curiously enough, the early Christians who were quick to complain about the degeneracy of pagan cults could not offer as much criticism about Isis as they could about some other cults in the Empire.

Universal Religion

Unlike Mithraism which was confined to a small percentage of "middle class" Roman males, the Isis cult was truly universal. Unlike Mithraism it could be practiced by both men and women, and it was women who perhaps took it up most enthusiastically. Unlike Mithraism it appealed to all classes; the lower classes and slaves were the mainstay of the cult, but as we have seen even those at the very top of the social strata were also adherents. Unlike Mithraism which was mostly confined to the Latin West, Isis was honored in both halves of the empire. Isis was long honored in the Greek East, and penetrated into the Latin West in even barely Romanized areas such as Britain or northwest Gaul. Isis was however a cult of city dwellers; we see little evidence of Isiac cults in rural areas outside of her native Egypt.
There was little danger of the small cult of Mithras, influential though it was, stemming the tide of Christianity and taking over the world. However, the cult of Isis had the numbers and the appeal to mount a serious threat to Christianity. Some scholars assert that the Holy Trinity of Isis, Serapis and Horus were not really defeated - they were merely absorbed into the new Holy Trinity of Christianity. The reverence for Mary among high Christian churches is similar to faith in Isis. We should consider at the very least that many chapels to the Virgin were built purposely on the remains of temples to Isis, and that furthermore the iconography of the Madonna and Christ is quite similar to Isis and Horus.
Today, Isiac religion is undergoing something of a revival. Among New Age crowds, Isis is a popular symbol among those seeking an alternative to "patriarchal" religions. In fact, Isis worship is part of the "goddess spirituality" movement promoted by feminist and other postmodern identity groups. However, their understanding and practices related to Isis are sometimes more conditioned by revisionist politics than by anything resembling history or archaeology. Nonetheless, alternative religious movements have coincided with periodic bursts of "Egyptomania" to open the door for a second look at the Isiac cults.
 
Last edited:
That's style, not substance.

I disagree. This is not a school of art we are talking about. It is the principal method of propaganda to convert. When someone sees Jesus as a magician they wouldn't think this is a stylist convention, they would think the theology means he worked magic and was a great wizard. When they see Jesus depicted as the Sun God they would think he is the Sun God and has been the Sun God for all existence.

Similarly, when they see Mary in the same pose doing the same thing as Isis the conclusion would be that Mary is Isis and has always been Isis.
 
I do not have an immediate response to your argument.

What might a victorious Isis cult look like? Should we transplant the Isis cult of Egypt (where I assume it was very powerful) onto Roman society as a whole?

In OTL, the Christianity of 200 AD and the Christianity of 400 AD were rather different--let alone the Christianity of 200 AD and 1000 AD--so that might not be a good idea.

And how might it ascend? Should we basically replace Christianity with the Isis cult and have it resemble OTL--despite the dislike of the Senators, the low-class "barracks emperors" sympathetic with the religion support it?

And does nobody have any comment at all about whether the Isis cult would persecute Jews or Christians? That's going to be a biggie if the cult becomes the dominant religion.
 

Philip

Donor
The World of Late Antiquity by Peter Brown has the best juxaposition of what I am talking about and provides the example you ask for. Plates 95 and 96 in my edition show Isis and Mary both suckling the Saviour God. A mother feeding her baby is protecting it. What do you think a mother is doing? Just getting rid of excess breast milk? The Isis image is from a 3rd cent Coptic frieze while the Christian one is from a 5th - 6th century tombstone from Egypt.
Can you scan them and post them here so that we can discuss them?

The rest of you argument escapes me. The theology of a Mother protecting her Saviour God son is the same in both sects.
Maybe you can be more specific here. What, exactly, is the theology of Mary protecting Christ and Isis protecting Serapis?

That is the point. The cult of Isis did survive in that this motif and the theology behind it was incorporated into Christian art and thinking.
Motif and theology are not the same.

The earliest Christian writings as far as I can determine did not make a big deal about the fact that Mary was the mother of Jesus.
And? Stop for a second and think about the earliest Christians for a second. They didn't really need to discuss Mary very much. Why not? Because Mary would still have been around. The Christian leaders would not have needed to dwell on who Jesus's mother was because they knew her. The second and latter generation of Christians do make a bigger deal about Mary. Why? Because she was no longer around. They didn't personally know here -- thus it became necessary to record facts about her. Further, the rise of Gnostic theologies of Jesus required the Christians to be more forceful in their defense of Jesus as a man, not a spirit. What better way to emphasize that Jesus was a human being with a fleshy body than to emphasis his mother?

To win over the people it was necessary to provide imagery and beliefs that were familiar or even the same.
Sorry, I see no logical reason for accepting that premise.

Christ as the Sun God, ... Even the date of Jesus' birth was taken from Sol Invictus. Christianity was an amalgum.
Your conclusion does not follow. The copying of birthdays (assuming that happened) does not indicate an identification between Christ and Sol Invictus. As has been pointed out many times, there are other explanations. The most common one is that Christians wanted an alternative to the pagan practice.



I disagree. This is not a school of art we are talking about. It is the principal method of propaganda to convert.

Assuming that is true (I am not sure how you claim to know the motives of the artists), the copying of the images does not imply the copying of theology. There are alternative explanations. As has been pointed out several times, it is at least as likely that the point was to replace the old beliefs. Depicting Mary and Christ in the same manner as Isis and Serapis does not require us to assume (or even suggest that we should assume) that the artist's intent was to say 'Christ=Serapis and Mary=Isis'. The motivation may just as well have been to say 'Isis and Serapis are false, Christ and Mary are true. Replace Isis and Serapis in your heart as I have replaced them in the image.' If you have a method for deducing which of these (or some other) was the artist's motive, please explain it for us.

When someone sees Jesus as a magician they wouldn't think this is a stylist convention, they would think the theology means he worked magic and was a great wizard.
Is this meant to be offensive to Christians?

When they see Jesus depicted as the Sun God they would think he is the Sun God and has been the Sun God for all existence.
Can you offer some support for this conclusion? While you are considering that consider the attacted image as well. Do you think that when people (to borrow your phrasing) 'see George Washington depicted as Zeus they would think he is Zeus and has been the Zeus for all existence'. Or, is it possible that they might draw a different conclusion?

washington-zeus.jpg
 
fellas, just purely a quick tangentially-related observation- here in Qld, the highway up to Bundaberg, from Maryborough, is called the Isis Highway :( dunno why that particular pagan name was selected...
 
Once Christianity was Hellenized, then Romanized, it ceased to be the same cult it initially was. It ceased being Middle Eastern and became European. It ceased being monotheistic.
This had already started happening with the cult of Isis. It had ceased being Egyptian and was Hellenic in nature. If Constantine had decided to make it the state religion, I am sure it would not have changed much in Roman history. It would have been interesting to see if Isis could be used like a Valkery to convert the Norse, or to see if the Irish would want to convert.
 
So what would be a good POD? I know Julian surviving was mentioned; but I don't think he was for Isis, if not specifically-more of a pan-paganist from my understanding (Though I wouldn't quote me on this). Details on the Roman Empire are not my strongest area of historical knowledge; so beyond the mention of Julian, I defer to those with more knowledge. Any takers?
 
So what would be a good POD? I know Julian surviving was mentioned; but I don't think he was for Isis, if not specifically-more of a pan-paganist from my understanding (Though I wouldn't quote me on this). Details on the Roman Empire are not my strongest area of historical knowledge; so beyond the mention of Julian, I defer to those with more knowledge. Any takers?

Gore Vidal's "Julian" depicts him as being a Mithraist, but historically he might have been, as you're describing, a "pan-paganist."

Julian living and reigning a long time might give the Isis cult some "breathing space" re: Christianity and might delay or prevent a Theodosian Christian ascension (the kind that involves persecution of pagans).

However, it might be too late to have Isis-ism displace Christianity entirely.
 
Gore Vidal's "Julian" depicts him as being a Mithraist, but historically he might have been, as you're describing, a "pan-paganist."

Julian living and reigning a long time might give the Isis cult some "breathing space" re: Christianity and might delay or prevent a Theodosian Christian ascension (the kind that involves persecution of pagans).

However, it might be too late to have Isis-ism displace Christianity entirely.

I was thinking the same thing in this regard; unless Julian or a successor gets hardline with Christianity, but this could lead to a civil war with uncertain concequences. IMO the best outcome would come from Isis "absorbing" a good chunk of Christian theology at this point.

Oh and thanks for responding, I wasn't trying to be dramatic or anything, just a funny send off to what I thought was finished.
 

Skokie

Banned
*boost*

I think the only way to get there is after Christianity has established itself. Then all you need is a heretical sect to take up Isis and piggyback her onto Christianity.

Think of Islam. It removed some of the more Greek or pagan aspects of Christianity (Trinity, Sacraments, the death of God, etc.) and replaced it with more Near Eastern, desert monotheism (aniconism, dietary codes).

Now flip it. Take, for instance, the Collyridians who worshipped the Virgin Mary as a goddess. Have them have some great revelation that--'lo--the Blessed Virgin is really just a manifestation of Isis. Cook up some moral this or that teachings, get a charismatic leader (preferably a skilled general, like Muhammed), throw in some agape feasts, and you've got a sphere of Isis worship!

Now can anyone get it to work?
 
Top