AHC: Cult of Fenrir

[Berserker]

like the title said: is it possible for the norse people to develope a Cult around the mythical being of Fenrir.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fenrir

how could such a cult develope, considering it was foretold that Fenrir would devour Odin at Ragnarok.

 

[Elfwine]

And then be killed in his turn by Odin's son.

Why would anyone see a monster chained to a rock by the Gods as someone to worship? He's not someone to be placated, he's not providing anything . . .

 

[Fenrir_Angerboda]

for a moment I was completely baffled and was wondering "Why do I get a Cult?"

Then I clicked on this, and felt slightly disappointed.

But..why would you want to worship a giant wolf that spent his life chained to a rock, and then gets his head split open by a Giant boot?

 

[Mosshadow]

like the title said: is it possible for the norse people to develope a Cult around the mythical being of Fenrir.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fenrir

how could such a cult develope, considering it was foretold that Fenrir would devour Odin at Ragnarok.

Furry fandom gets early start

Seriously though wolves and animals in general were not as popular back then as now. Wolves killed many people because there was little food in winter.

In ancient dacia which was somewhere in the balkans , they had a religion that involves wolf dieties or something similar but the christians destroyed most religious objects and converted the people so we do not know anything about it.

 

[Onyx]

But..why would you want to worship a giant wolf that spent his life chained to a rock, and then gets his head split open by a Giant boot?

Because worshipping a Giant Wolf that would bring forth the apocalypse sounds awesome and getting there head split open sounds like a badass death.

But I digress

 

[Incognito]

Um, guys, legends can morph and change you know. Fenrir legend may under some influence morph into something else where he is not chained to the rock all the time. IIRC Egyptian god Set was initially a dark, evil deity but with time developed positive aspects & was worshiped.

And to those saying "lol, no, people back than thought wolves/animals were evil", how do you explain the multitude of animalistic pagan deities? There were several pagan deities that were associated with wolves or could transform into wolves.

Perhaps the Fanrir legend can somehow get fused with the Greek Promethius myth? "Fanrir was this good deity that helped humans but the other gods thought he was making life too easy for us mortals so they tricked him and chained him up".

 

[Elfwine]

Um, guys, legends can morph and change you know. Fenrir legend may under some influence morph into something else where he is not chained to the rock all the time. IIRC Egyptian god Set was initially a dark, evil deity but with time developed positive aspects & was worshiped.

YEs, but why would they? Fenrir being what he's presented as is rather important to several parts of the, in a word, story.

Perhaps the Fanrir legend can somehow get fused with the Greek Promethius myth? "Fanrir was this good deity that helped humans but the other gods thought he was making life too easy for us mortals so they tricked him and chained him up".

That doesn't really make sense. And why would a Greek myth that hasn't been practiced for centuries fuse with a Norse myth?

I'm at a loss for how that would come about.

 

[twovultures]

The saga of Ragnorak was possibly created as a result of Christianity's spread into Scandinavia, so Fenrir eating Odin is not something that is mythologically set in stone. I'd say Incognito has a good spin on it, Fenrir was a good deity tricked into turning into a wolf and chained by the gods for helping humans, and his escape will assure a paradise for mankind (or at least a chosen few who worship him).

 

[Elfwine]

The saga of Ragnorak was possibly created as a result of Christianity's spread into Scandinavia, so Fenrir eating Odin is not something that is mythologically set in stone. I'd say Incognito has a good spin on it, Fenrir was a good deity tricked into turning into a wolf and chained by the gods for helping humans, and his escape will assure a paradise for mankind (or at least a chosen few who worship him).

. . . except that the Norse Gods aren't the dicks the Greek Gods are, so "helping humans" as a reason for chaining him to a rock etc. doesn't fly.

This would take more than mythologies changing over time and/or with other influences.

Plus, if Fenrir is completely changed from how he was (is) seen OTL, you pretty much are left with the name and a "so and so was punished by the Gods" myth.

 

[Incognito]

. . . except that the Norse Gods aren't the dicks the Greek Gods are, so "helping humans" as a reason for chaining him to a rock etc. doesn't fly.

I thought Norse gods did dickish things too. Wasn't there a legend where Odin punishes the world when his wife steals a part of a golden statue humans built for him?

Plus some interpretations say only worriers get a pleasant afterlife and the sick and old get left out in the cold so to speak.

This would take more than mythologies changing over time and/or with other influences.

Plus, if Fenrir is completely changed from how he was (is) seen OTL, you pretty much are left with the name and a "so and so was punished by the Gods" myth.

IIRC Fenrir wasn't malicious until the gods chained him up. And the only reason they chained him up in the first place was because of the prophesy that he'll kill Odin. So by by betraying Fenrir (they told him the chain is to test his strength and that they'll release him if he won 't be able to break free) and pissing him off by keeping him on a leash till the end of time they created a self-fulfilling prophecy. So yeah, Fenrir character is not one-dimensional "big bad".

 

[Elfwine]

I thought Norse gods did dickish things too. Wasn't there a legend where Odin punishes the world when his wife steals a part of a golden statue humans built for him?

Plus some interpretations say only worriers get a pleasant afterlife and the sick and old get left out in the cold so to speak.

warriors*

I don't recall reading that one, but I wouldn't rule it out. But there's a huge difference between generally dickish (the Greek gods) and . . well, I haven't read the myth so I'm not sure what the basis for Odin's actions was. As in, why humanity is punished instead of wifey.

IIRC Fenrir wasn't malicious until the gods chained him up. And the only reason they chained him up in the first place was because of the prophesy that he'll kill Odin. So by by betraying Fenrir (they told him the chain is to test his strength and that they'll release him if he won 't be able to break free) and pissing him off by keeping him on a leash till the end of time they created a self-fulfilling prophecy. So yeah, Fenrir character is not one-dimensional "big bad".

He was the son of Loki (not exactly promising), so it's not like he's some kind of innocent victim, either.

Point being, he was a Bad Guy - one dimensional or not.

 

[Incognito]

Point being, he was a Bad Guy - one dimensional or not.

So was Set, and yet he evolved into someone Egyptians worshiped.

 

[Fenrir_Angerboda]

I thought Norse gods did dickish things too. Wasn't there a legend where Odin punishes the world when his wife steals a part of a golden statue humans built for him?

that particular legend was written as part of the Gesta Danorum, which also claimed that Thor and Odin were merely cunning sorcerers that tricked the people of Denmark, Sweden and Norway into believing they were gods, so I'm not certain that's the best legend to use.

Plus some interpretations say only worriers get a pleasant afterlife and the sick and old get left out in the cold so to speak.

It was a rather nice place in the original myths, but once Christianity started to seep into thing, that's when Valhalla turned into a glorious place to live, and Hel was merged with the Biblical Hell.

Remember that Valhalla was originally intended for only the Greatest and most powerful warriors to go to after they died, and Hel was for everyone else.
Normal people weren't punished.

IIRC Fenrir wasn't malicious until the gods chained him up. And the only reason they chained him up in the first place was because of the prophesy that he'll kill Odin. So by by betraying Fenrir (they told him the chain is to test his strength and that they'll release him if he won 't be able to break free) and pissing him off by keeping him on a leash till the end of time they created a self-fulfilling prophecy. So yeah, Fenrir character is not one-dimensional "big bad".

Quite honestly, given how often the gods came into conflict with the Jotun, and his parent's aren't exactly the best people...we could see a different legend come out of that, that ends with Fenrir being killed Thor or some other god.

So was Set, and yet he evolved into someone Egyptians worshiped.

As for the constant "Set went from hated to worshiped" that's ignoring what happened.

Remember that Set was the god of Storms, Foreigners and Deserts. When the Hyksos took over, they found Set to be very similar to their chief god, and made him their new head god.

Fenrir, on the flip side, is never really fleshed out, so it's unlikely that he would be picked up and combined as Set was.

 

[Berserker]

Um, guys, legends can morph and change you know. Fenrir legend may under some influence morph into something else where he is not chained to the rock all the time. IIRC Egyptian god Set was initially a dark, evil deity but with time developed positive aspects & was worshiped.

And to those saying "lol, no, people back than thought wolves/animals were evil", how do you explain the multitude of animalistic pagan deities? There were several pagan deities that were associated with wolves or could transform into wolves.

from what I know there was a positive belief about Werewolves in Latvia, who battle demons from the underworld. perhaps, in legends, there is a different profecy in which Fenrir would fight alongside the Aesir in a tragic "the son slays the father" battle.

in such a case, Fenrir would be vieuwd as a fighter against dark forces

Fenrir, on the flip side, is never really fleshed out, so it's unlikely that he would be picked up and combined as Set was.

how can he be fleshed out?

 

[Blackfox5]

So was Set, and yet he evolved into someone Egyptians worshiped.

I think it's actually the opposite. In the earliest myths, Set was the protector of Ra in the underworld, defending him from Apep. He also did some bad things to Osiris and Horus, but he was seen as representing one of the two lands and was often invoked by the Pharoahs. He wasn't seen as an enemy to the people of Egypt.

It was only later when Egypt was invaded and conquered by foreigners that Set became demonized since Set was seen as the god of foreigners, and some of them adopted him as their patron. It was only then that Set was turned into more of a terrible monster with no redeeming qualities.

It's much easier for a deity to be seen as becoming evil, than an existing evil creature to become good.