AHC: create the WAllied long range fighter force

I belive they actually did this, but not until after the situation was less critical. Biger oil tank and a ton of petrol.

Again we have to have a POD where Castle Bromwich is stood up at full production earlier than OTL - allowing for additional airframes to be modified without impacting fighter command numbers

Interesting question though would such escort squadrons be under the control of Bomber Command or Fighter Command?
 
I just want to backtrack for a moment. What would inspire the WAllies to suddenly develop long range fighters after Dieppe?
My educated guess is that in this timeline Dieppe was a bigger disaster. In that case do the Americans give up on SLEDGEHAMMER for now and concentrate on bombing German industry? Are the British going to give daylight bombing another try?
 
Perhaps the British make greater use of US Bombers and operate them in Daylight?

And /or larger number of 4 Engine bombers are sent to Coastal Command with a greater appreciation of the need to 'precision' attack U-boat bases and construction bases in day time and this pushes a need for escorts!
 
Sounds like the American option would still be an early Merlin-ed P-51, which is doable by mid-1942.

Huh?

CORSAIR

F4U

Already in combat approved and qualified operation. Need to plumb two wing hardpoints.

P-51 isn't going to happen that fast and the A-36 wasn't gonna feed the bull dog, not in mid 1942. The first Merlin equipped Mustang didn't fly until October of 1942. The aircraft DID NOT EXIST in mid-1942.

The ONLY reason the P-51, as we know it, even happened was because the Packard V-1650-Merlin was noticeably heavier than the Allison (1,650 pound vs 1,310) and it screwed up the center of gravity for the aircraft so they wound up stuffing an extra 85 gallon fuel tank behind the pilot because the scramble was on to find a long range escort.

F4U's 1st combat was at Valentine's day of 1943, curiously enough they (along with P-38s) got a bit spanked, with 3 Zeros claimed for 10 American A/C lost.
P-51 is already in production, just cancel the darned A-36 and produce actual fighters. The P-51B happened because 2-stage supercharged Merlin offered excellent power at any altitude, and especially high up, year or two before the V-1710 was ready to emulate that. 1st contract for such P-51s was signed at July 25th 1942 - about a year before USAAF started the escort panic.
The increased weight of the V-1650-3 was compensated by using a bigger cooling system installed aft the CoG, that also included the intercooler radiator. No major screwing of the CoG, the Britsh 'Merlin Mustangs' flew without fuselage tanks without problems, as did the initial P-51Bs. CoG was screwed with fuselage tank holding more than 40-45 gals, such outfitted Mustangs were supposed to enter combat with fuselage tank empty.
Installation of the V-1650-1 means there is no intercooler (= easier job), and engine is some 150 lbs lighter than the V-1650-3.

If USAF is that much afraid of F4U, ship them to the RAF and RCAF units in the UK.
 
The Corsair is going way out of the box for the USAAF in 1942-early 1943! The number one reason is it is a (gasp) Navy plane. The number two reason is designed for the Navy.
The POD is a failed Dieppe in 1942. The situation might be bad enough that Hap Arnold might turn to the F4U as a temporary fix. Arnold could be made aware of or already know that the Corsair failed it's initial carrier qualifications and that the Navy is going to assign it to shore duty anyway. During the 5 month period mentioned in the OP then you have to train up an Army Squadron to be deployed to England by June.
Who says that the Corsairs are flown by the USAAF? The RAF is quite capable of stealing them from the FAA.
 

Deleted member 1487

I think what CalBear is saying is that the Corsair is the best short term solution. However, Marshall will take Marine Corps aircraft but he won't accept Marine pilots flying in the ETO or even training Army pilots. So if you want Corsairs flying out of England the AAF is going to cut it's own deal with Vought, take delivery of it's own F4Us and stand up it's own squadrons. It all sounds easy right? The catch is would Marshall do the right thing and sign off on Hap Arnold and the AAF getting the Corsair? It could happen but it all depends on the sales pitch. It has to look like the idea came from the Army Air Force.
On a side note Ernest King might complain that the Army just stole his airplane.
Which is what I'm saying. Technically it is the easiest route as the aircraft already exists, the problem is US military interservice politics and procurement. I actually wonder if it would be easier for the Brits to order it and lease it to the USAAF or something. The RN had Corsairs AFAIK.
 

Archibald

Banned
As much as I respect Calbear, inter-service rivalries ensured no Navy fighter would ever found its way in the Air Force (or Air corps). No.way.in.hell.
 

Deleted member 1487

Who's to say that the issue couldn't be forced this time as well? If FDR gets involved in it, I find it highly unlikely that Marshall would ignore a directive from his Commander in Chief
FDR did not get into equipment issues, he had Marshal for that.
 
If the RAF are using Corsairs over Europe while the 8th Air Force is daily getting slaughtered due to lack of escorts someone in Washington is going to start raising hell. Letters home to their Congressmen by Bomber crews asking why they're only being escorted to Berlin by the RAF flying that hot Navy pursuit with the gull wings and not good old American Pilots could start it.
 
Get Hawkers and its chief designer Sidney Camm to remove their heads from their backsides and get the Hawker Tempest MkII flying. How on earth did a design started in mid 1940 not get into service till well after the war was over.
 
F4U's 1st combat was at Valentine's day of 1943, curiously enough they (along with P-38s) got a bit spanked, with 3 Zeros claimed for 10 American A/C lost.
P-51 is already in production, just cancel the darned A-36 and produce actual fighters. The P-51B happened because 2-stage supercharged Merlin offered excellent power at any altitude, and especially high up, year or two before the V-1710 was ready to emulate that. 1st contract for such P-51s was signed at July 25th 1942 - about a year before USAAF started the escort panic.
The increased weight of the V-1650-3 was compensated by using a bigger cooling system installed aft the CoG, that also included the intercooler radiator. No major screwing of the CoG, the Britsh 'Merlin Mustangs' flew without fuselage tanks without problems, as did the initial P-51Bs. CoG was screwed with fuselage tank holding more than 40-45 gals, such outfitted Mustangs were supposed to enter combat with fuselage tank empty.
Installation of the V-1650-1 means there is no intercooler (= easier job), and engine is some 150 lbs lighter than the V-1650-3.

If USAF is that much afraid of F4U, ship them to the RAF and RCAF units in the UK.



All excellent points.
 
In the fall of 1942 the F4U-1 is still in it's development stage. The Marines are just starting to train with it. As far as the USAAF is concerned you have a fighter that the Navy has rejected for carrier service that meets the Army's current needs.
Marshall could simply have Arnold get priority on the first batch of Corsairs. The Army debuts the Corsair first in February 1943 rather than the Marines as the P-48. The Marines get their F4Us to the Pacific a little later. Now the F4Us/P-48 is not identified as a Navy/Marine plane.
 
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