AHC: create the WAllied long range fighter force

... with POD being, say, failure of Dieppe raid (19th Aug 1942). The LR fighter force is supposed to be in action no later than june 1943, so it is rather a short notice. Obviously no new fighter designs will met the deadline, so the fighter that are either in production or about to enter the production are worth of consideration. WAllied = GB + USA in this case, plus what can be produced in Canada if possible.
The candidates need to meet the usual performance, firepower and protection standards of the day, plus the action radius from East Anglia to Ruhr initially, or 400 miles at least, with 500 miles (beyond Frankfurt a/M) being desireable. At least 500 fighters by the end of May 1943.
 

Deleted member 1487

... with POD being, say, failure of Dieppe raid (19th Aug 1942). The LR fighter force is supposed to be in action no later than june 1943, so it is rather a short notice. Obviously no new fighter designs will met the deadline, so the fighter that are either in production or about to enter the production are worth of consideration. WAllied = GB + USA in this case, plus what can be produced in Canada if possible.
The candidates need to meet the usual performance, firepower and protection standards of the day, plus the action radius from East Anglia to Ruhr initially, or 400 miles at least, with 500 miles (beyond Frankfurt a/M) being desireable. At least 500 fighters by the end of May 1943.
https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/wi-naca-modified-p-38.419398/
 
The Spitfire could be built with additional fuel tanks behind the pilot seat as seen in the Long range PR Spitfires (which where conversions of the standard marks of the day) - some of these early PR Spitfires reached Stettin (now Szczecin on the Oder
River in modern Poland) - but these used (as well as the extra fuselage tanks) a modified wing with an additional 114 gallons and obviously no guns (nick named the Bowser because it carried so much fuel)

So take a standard IX (Mk 9 type 361) which entered production in add the internal PR fuel tank mods, leverage and modify the the drop tank of the day, add a larger oil reservoir and 'facilities for the Pilot' in the form of a suitably placed tube and voila - long range fighter easily by 1943 - not sure why it was not done TBH?

Aside from the possible stability issues - but then pilots would be trained to use the rear tanks first which should resolve that - by the time they arrive over Holland much of the rear fuel should be used up.

I had an idea (I think I might have shared previously?) for a 'Malta' Spitfire that could self deploy from Gib to Malta - and then once arrived on the island fit the guns ammo armour plate (which would have arrived by Submarine or fast Cruiser or Sunderland?) and 'air' the rear tank as it would not be used in ops.
 

Deleted member 1487

There you go Tomo, two suggestions, both the ExLR Spitfire. Case closed :p
 
... with POD being, say, failure of Dieppe raid (19th Aug 1942). The LR fighter force is supposed to be in action no later than june 1943, so it is rather a short notice. Obviously no new fighter designs will met the deadline, so the fighter that are either in production or about to enter the production are worth of consideration. WAllied = GB + USA in this case, plus what can be produced in Canada if possible.
The candidates need to meet the usual performance, firepower and protection standards of the day, plus the action radius from East Anglia to Ruhr initially, or 400 miles at least, with 500 miles (beyond Frankfurt a/M) being desireable. At least 500 fighters by the end of May 1943.


Sorry tomo pauk I saw what you wrote about not clogging the NACA modified P-38 thread but it still looks like the P-38 is the best choice for what's available on such a tight schedule.
 
Earlier adoption of drop tanks gets you fairly close to the requirement. If my notes are correct; then by August 43 the P47 with drop tanks could reach 375 miles, or from East Anglia to a line from Frankfort> Kassel> Hanover. A P38 model was able to consistenly reach a bit past the Nurenberg> Lepzig arch, 520 miles from November 43. The earliest P51 examples reaching to Stetten was in December 1943. However in both those examples there was not a adaquate effort to turn those ranges into sufficient long range escorts.

There are some questions in all this for production of the correct models and pilot training, but in theory it looks possible to reach the goal of the OP.
 
This might be handy:

escort ranges 800.JPG
 

Archibald

Banned
I'll check France fight on to see how early did they got a Packard Merlin Mustang when compared to OTL. While France is out just like OTL, it should give a comparison.

The debate here.
http://www.1940lafrancecontinue.org...&start=0&sid=0a0cc94af7487313e246c460c3b2f911

Looks like they got a Mustang called the NA-89 with imported Merlin 28s (the engine from the P-40F) in service by June 1942.

http://www.1940lafrancecontinue.org/FTL/1942/annexes/anx-c-y1-mustang.pdf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Rolls-Royce_Merlin_variants
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Packard_V-1650_Merlin

I got it. The first Packard Merlin was the Merlin 28 but it never powered the Mustang, only the P-40F. So combining the two should accelerate the Merlin-Mustang when compared to OTL.

ITTL the Mustang doesn't wait the Merlin 60 to get ride of its Allison V-1710. Hurry up, give me that Packard Merlin 28 !
 
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Find a way to license Merlins earlier and dump the Allison and you might have a shot there.

The POD is 2 years after the Packard deal was signed. However...

ITTL the Mustang doesn't wait the Merlin 60 to get ride of its Allison V-1710. Hurry up, give me that Packard Merlin 28 !

The Mustang is indeed a strong contender, even without the 2-stage S/C. So the 1st thing might be - have USAAF cancel the A-36 and get the P-51A in the works ASAP at NAA. The P-51A was with a better engine than the P-51 (no letter) and was managing 395 mph at 25000 ft (without racks; those will cost 12 mph), plus with drop tank facility taken over from A-36. Not much of a climber, though. The 'better engine' in question (F20 and F21) was available from November 1942.
One of the options is for the British to re-engine their Mustangs with Merlin 45, that was better than F20 or F21 by a wide margin. Will probably mean 400++ mph at 25000 ft, with a better climb already above 12000 ft. Weight and dimensions as close to the V-1710 as possible.
Granted, the Packard Merlin aboard the Mustang in 1942 and early 1943 is a great proposal.
 
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Allison should have developed a 2 stage supercharger for the V-1710 earlier on. The problem was the U.S. Army wasn't interested in funding that approach.
 

CalBear

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Time to go just a stride or to outside the Box.

Try the Corsair. The F4U in "deck qualified" configuration had a combat radius of around 350 miles. Knock off a few hundred pounds by eliminating the carrier landing gear and that puts you close to the 400 mile mark. The aircraft's range as quoted was on internal fuel (361 Gal/1,366 L). Add two 110 gallon drop tanks and the range reached 600 miles, take that up to a pair of 150s and you have gull wingsover Berlin.

The aircraft was in squadron service by February of 1943. Of the three main U.S. fighters that used the R-2800 the F4U had the most internal fuel capacity (55 gallons more than the P-47 and 111 more than the F6F, although this was due to the use of two wing tanks that were not self sealing, at least not in the F4U-1). Based on the required time line for the scenario that gives five months to plumb two of the wing hard points.
 
Time to go just a stride or to outside the Box.

Try the Corsair. The F4U in "deck qualified" configuration had a combat radius of around 350 miles. Knock off a few hundred pounds by eliminating the carrier landing gear and that puts you close to the 400 mile mark. The aircraft's range as quoted was on internal fuel (361 Gal/1,366 L). Add two 110 gallon drop tanks and the range reached 600 miles, take that up to a pair of 150s and you have gull wingsover Berlin.

The aircraft was in squadron service by February of 1943. Of the three main U.S. fighters that used the R-2800 the F4U had the most internal fuel capacity (55 gallons more than the P-47 and 111 more than the F6F, although this was due to the use of two wing tanks that were not self sealing, at least not in the F4U-1). Based on the required time line for the scenario that gives five months to plumb two of the wing hard points.
The Corsair is going way out of the box for the USAAF in 1942-early 1943! The number one reason is it is a (gasp) Navy plane. The number two reason is designed for the Navy.
The POD is a failed Dieppe in 1942. The situation might be bad enough that Hap Arnold might turn to the F4U as a temporary fix. Arnold could be made aware of or already know that the Corsair failed it's initial carrier qualifications and that the Navy is going to assign it to shore duty anyway. During the 5 month period mentioned in the OP then you have to train up an Army Squadron to be deployed to England by June.
 

CalBear

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The Corsair is going way out of the box for the USAAF in 1942-early 1943! The number one reason is it is a (gasp) Navy plane. The number two reason is designed for the Navy.
The POD is a failed Dieppe in 1942. The situation might be bad enough that Hap Arnold might turn to the F4U as a temporary fix. Arnold could be made aware of or already know that the Corsair failed it's initial carrier qualifications and that the Navy is going to assign it to shore duty anyway. During the 5 month period mentioned in the OP then you have to train up an Army Squadron to be deployed to England by June.
The good news regarding training is that the aircraft was very similar to the Thunderbolt (same engine, similar performance) so getting AAF pursuit pilots up to speed would be fairly simple. Most important thing is to leave them unpainted, and make damned sure no one says "Marine Corps" anywhere near Marshall.
 
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