AHC: Create an empire with these borders

With a POD of 1035 and end date of 1800, how could an empire of roughly this size form in Central and Eastern Europe? The borders don't have to match these ones exactly, it's just a general area.

Basically a cavalry based "counter-Roman empire" with the main trade routes being overland, instead of at sea.

Would it be Slavic? What kind of imperial administration would be necessary for the empire to hold together?

empire.png
 
Does this empire have to continuously exist from 1035 to 1800? If so I could say if the Frankish Empire was reunited and expanded. But if it's an empire between 1035 to 1800 there are a million possiblities. So many countries tried to create empires, so many failed revolutions, so many assassinations of leaders who could have made their mark on the world.

Fantastic map, I'll definitely try to revisit this with a story.
 
Without these damn British Isles and Scandinavia, I see a chance. Other than that, rather not.
The British Isles and Scandinavia are the least populated parts, so they can be excluded. Do you think maybe the Mongols, or Mongol-influenced Russians could have formed this empire?
 
Does this empire have to continuously exist from 1035 to 1800? If so I could say if the Frankish Empire was reunited and expanded. But if it's an empire between 1035 to 1800 there are a million possiblities. So many countries tried to create empires, so many failed revolutions, so many assassinations of leaders who could have made their mark on the world.

Fantastic map, I'll definitely try to revisit this with a story.
The POD is 1035 and the empire should be formed by 1800, although it can be formed before that. Or it could even just be an "empire" lasting a few years, like Napoleon's First French Empire.
 
Mongols was my first idea too. But they get a problem with the british isles, Scandinavia and the Alpes.
A never divided or reunited Frankish Empire sounds very plausible. It has 1000 years more time. Even if I expect it would go for Spain and also Constantinople, before it looks for Scandianvia. Well, perhaps the Franks came to Scandinavia in order to stop the viking raids. Then they came with the defeated Vikings to Russia.

If the Arabs and the Romans hold the line at their borders, this might be the Frankish Empire end of the Mid-Ages.

The challenge is to ipmlement an adminstration model which is able to manage that an huge empire. Fully against german culture. And the roman model does not help either. It already failed. I doubt any ancient or mid-age government model scales that much. Even not the mongolian. Not on this scale and longterm.
 
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Maybe it could be some kind of Habsburg thing. Like, Philip has a kid with Mary I, who gets England and the Netherlands, and a Habsburg marries into the Valois line, and English and Spanish troops help them secure the French throne during the wars of religion in the late 16th century. Without France or England, the Austrian Habsburgs crush the protestant princes of northern Germany and bring it under a tighter leash by the mid 17th century, then campaign down the Danube to force the Ottomans back into Greece. Mop up the Poles sometime in the late 17th century, and can then spend the 18th century fighting the Russians. Took them a long time to actually get a modern army, when the (Spanish) Habsburgs had the very first.
 
Mongols was my first idea too. But they get a problem with the british isles, Scandinavia and the Alpes.
A never divided or reunited Frankish Empire sounds very plausible. It has 1000 years more time. Even if I expect it would go for Spain and also Constantinople, before it looks for Scandianvia. Well, perhaps the Franks came to Scandinavia in order to stop the viking raids. Then they came with the defeated Vikings to Russia.

If the Arabs and the Romans hold the line at their borders, this might be the Frankish Empire end of the Mid-Ages.

The challenge is to ipmlement an adminstration model which is able to manage that an huge empire. Fully against german culture. And the roman model does not help either. It already failed. I doubt any ancient or mid-age government model scales that much. Even not the mongolian. Not on this scale and longterm.
What about a sort of mix between the Holy Roman model, Byzantine model, and Mongolian model? Core territories of the Frankish Empire would have hereditary titles like king, duke, count, etc. who have to provide troops to the emperor. Primogeniture is strictly enforced for all hereditary titles, preventing continued feudalization and providing many landless nobles to become knights and settlers.

Newly conquered territories in the east are non-hereditary, appointed titles. Provinces perhaps, or themata. They also provide troops to the emperor, but more cavalry focused in the east while the west are armored infantry. The emperor is constantly trying to abolish hereditary titles, leading to occasional crises, but has 800 years to sort it out.

At some point this empire is conquered by the Mongols, or is influenced by allied (or dynastically united), Christianized Mongols. The Mongols introduce their system of fast correspondence, 4 horses to a cavalrymen, religious freedom, and their military strategy, as well as founding key cities, like a western Sarai Batu and Astrakhan located in Poland, Germany, etc. Chinese agricultural technology is maybe introduced by the Mongols as well.
 
I could see this being a larger post-Golden Bull HRE. The Pope, in an attempt to solidify Catholicism's territorial integrity, recognizes the Emperor as the God-appointed temporal head of Christianity. All Catholic states have to swear fealty to him. This emperor will actually be more of a ceremonial position and would only in practice be able to command armies from all over Europe if it's a Papal-sanctioned crusade. The vassal states would still have full internal sovereignty and diplomacy over other vassal states, complete with wars and almost everything else that happened OTL. They wouldn't take kindly to the emperor meddling in their internal affairs.

With this premise, revolts against the emperor's rule wouldn't be an issue too hard to handle because this is mostly a symbolic gesture making Europe nominally a single political entity for the purposes of diplomacy between the ERE and the Muslim states and external defense.
 

Minty_Fresh

Banned
This looks shockingly like my Medieval 2 Total War Holy Roman Empire boundaries, except for the Northern Italian states which I also conquered.

But anyways, I would see this as most likely, if we are talking cavalry based, some form of the Mongols, perhaps the Golden Horde. The issue of course is how do they get Britain AND Ireland ?
 
I saw four centers at first glance: England under the Plantagenets, the Union of Kalmar, and later the Hapsburgs and Poland-Lithuania. (Spain turns out very different if the Reconquest isn't completed until well after the 1500's and the Valois never really get off the ground). Austria and Poland keep the Ottomans out of most of the Balkans- but the Ottomans do conquer much of Italy- including Rome- and Spain. Poland-Lithuania succeed in conquering European Russia- no Romanov dynasty is founded. The Cavalry, then is mainly Polish and Cossack but the unity of the Empire comes from the Hapbsurgs, who stay lucky in marriage inheriting Poland-Lithuania around 1600, Plantagenet England after Queen Eleanor II marries the Emperor (1681). And in 1736, the Archduchess Maria Theresa marries Olaf IX of Scandinavia, rounding out the Empire. (all the German states were absorbed in 1628 after their defeat in the Ten Year's War.)
Scotland and Ireland are never brought in, it is they who colonized North America with some French and German dissidents. After 1628, there was no question of the Pretended Reformed Religion as a state religion. The papacy wound up in Avignon, there to stay.
 
Several things might happen in order.
- Cnut the Great Empire does not dissolve after his death.
- Still some kind of Norman Conquest/Inheritance happens later to bring France into the orbit, eventually resulting in Anglo-French-Scandinavian Union.
- Meanwhile Germans and Swedes successfully subjugate Novgorod and later destroy/integrate Poland. Might coincide with more destructive Mongol invasion which depopulates Russia and Balkans but ultimately falls back or weaken enough for these territories to be conquered by HRE/neo-cruzaders.
- Find a way to unite all three entities (Anglo-France-West Scaninavia, East Scandinavia and mega-HRE). It would be most likely short-lived dynastic union, but here we are.
 

jahenders

Banned
It seems like the British Isles are the tough point or the linchpin. So, I think the best places to start would be some union there, either:
- Canute solidifies his hold on England, builds a lasting regime, conquers Wales, Scotland, Sweden, Ireland, and then launches on to the continent.
- The power split after the Norman conquest goes differently and England becomes part of France. After consolidation, they start pushing East, into Germany and Norway, etc.
- The 100 Years War goes differently and France becomes part of England. As above.
- If you REALLY cut it close (to the designated dates), Napolean could start his efforts with a slightly different focus, skip Spain, Italy, and Egypt; push East and North (taking Norway, etc); make careful gains in West Russia; then finally take England when it has no real allies.
 
I think it starts with the great schism. Avignon and Rome never unite. If they don't reunite, the Hussites take much of Germany. Then they form an alliance with the Avignon church. With their Hussite war wagons, they conquer Poland and push deep into the Orthodox lands. When Scandinavia joins, they can conquer Albion. But this might be more of a religious alliance. Spain and Italy stay with Rome. Either Greece remains orthodox or the Turks conquer them.
Oh by the way, this looks almost like what happened during the last great war. Balbo decided to hold back after the Germans conquered France. Then Yugoslavia joined with Germany as Germany had hoped. And aside from some territorial concessions to Bulgaria, they left Greece alone. When the Germans invade Russia, they concentrate on the northern front, and less on the southern and central fronts. And by not wasting men in Africa, they can take Leningrad and the region to the White Sea. Russia throws in the towel. If Sweden has not already joined the axis, they do so at this time. Now they can do a sea lion.
 
nope to all that germania still united from roman incursions build there own empire after the collapse of rome, united tribes and killing all those that wont join their tribes eventually uniteing modern denmark, germany, austria, switzerland, belgium, and netherlands later to expand throughout history
 
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