AHC: Create alternate 20th superpowers with a post 1860 POD

AHC: Create alternate 20th centuary superpowers with a post 1860 POD

With a POD post 1860 take countries that had little influence of military force in the 20th centuary and turn them into superpowers. Do this by either wanking the power of weaker countries from OTL (such as Spain or Italy) to make them akin to countries like Germany or the US or byystrengthening some countries by a smaller margin and then have them form alternate alliances capable of matching forces like the Entante or Axis of OTL.
 
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You cannot have twenty superpowers. I'm not even sure you can have twenty great powers, since being a XXXpower is a zero sum game in which other non-powers lose.
 
You cannot have twenty superpowers. I'm not even sure you can have twenty great powers, since being a XXXpower is a zero sum game in which other non-powers lose.
(facepalm) I'm sorry I meant to type 20th CENTUARY.
 
Brazil and Argentina have a chance if they can be more stable.

Keep Austria-Hungary united, you have them as a super-power. Likewise, keep the Ottomans alive in the Middle East. Those are two superpowers in the Balkans.

If France wins the Franco-Prussian War, you don't get a Germany.

If you can create a stronger separatist sentiment in places like Scotland and Wales the way Ireland was, you would really weaken the UK by making its homeland unstable.

China has a chance to become a global power earlier if they can resist European powers. Boxer rebellion maybe?

If the CSA wins the civil war, you really destabilize the USA, and consequently perhaps Canada becomes the North American Power, or a France-backed Mexican Empire who, with the help of the CSA, takes back parts of the Southwest?

And then you have France... given what I've just described, I'm guessing the only way to bring them back down to par would be an affect of the following later down the road. Maybe Italy or Spain replaces later on as an economic and military power, possibly even as a colonial one.

Then with Russia you can have more revolutions with less success as OTL, resulting in several "Russias" fighting with each other, essentially as puppets of whoever is their funder or ally (Sweden, Canada, Japan, Ottoman Empire, Austria-Hungary, and maybe Persia are all options).
 
The threat that compelled Germany to the Great War, the economic potential of Russia, is fulfilled; saving Germany from being cut down time and time again by the West.

So Russia peaks early instead of Germany, allowing Germany to be at the very least the USSR analog by the mid-20th century and quite possibly be the preeminent superpower.


If the Confederacy survives then the Second Mexican Empire might survive and Napoleon III's restored French Empire might survive and win or avoid the Franco-Prussian War. And the Franco-Spanish War allows France to pick up some profitable colonies from the ossifying Spanish empire.

Or the Netherlands somehow winds up with the Philippines incorporated into their East Indies and keeps getting breaks from there. Of course you'd need to start earlier than that. For instance, what could give the Netherlands a chance to shine enough to warrant a Restored French Empire or Columbia Exposition style World's Fair before the turn of the century? Something could get the British allies on the continent, the Low Countries and the Kingdom of Hanover, implausibly unified but that probably would be more of a curiosity or an interesting secondary power than a great power much less superpower.
 
Best bets:

-Argentina (especially if they can overrun the rest of southern South America)
-Austria-Hungary
-Brazil
-China
-*maybe* Italy
-Ottomans
-Russia
-Japan
 
Brazil and Argentina have a chance if they can be more stable.

Not enough people in Argentina: even if you double the population, they are at best a mid-sized power.

Keep Austria-Hungary united, you have them as a super-power.

Still a mid-sized power. If France keeps Prussia from uniting Germany, perhaps we can have them eventually united under the Habsburgs?

Likewise, keep the Ottomans alive in the Middle East. T

If they can hold on in Africa as well as the middle east, and perhaps central asia from a collapsing Russia, they're definitely there.

China has a chance to become a global power earlier if they can resist European powers. Boxer rebellion maybe?

Heck, more successful 1911. China's definitely in the running.

If the CSA wins the civil war, you really destabilize the USA, and consequently perhaps Canada becomes the North American Power, or a France-backed Mexican Empire who, with the help of the CSA, takes back parts of the Southwest?

Canada - again, too few people. Mexico is unlikely, (short on people and already deeply fucked up in 1860) although if it is successful at modernizing it might expand south.

And then you have France... given what I've just described, I'm guessing the only way to bring them back down to par would be an affect of the following later down the road. Maybe Italy or Spain replaces later on as an economic and military power, possibly even as a colonial one.

France was never a superpower, and Britain really wasn't one save for a short time in the 19th century.

Then with Russia you can have more revolutions with less success as OTL, resulting in several "Russias" fighting with each other, essentially as puppets of whoever is their funder or ally (Sweden, Canada, Japan, Ottoman Empire, Austria-Hungary, and maybe Persia are all options).

Sweden???? :eek:

Other possibilities:
Japanese Empire
Unified and economically savvier India
United Arab world centered on Egypt (may not have the demographics if transition sets in early enough)
Some sort of Latin American federation (iffy and unlikely to be tolerated by the US)
An earlier and more closely unified EU equivalent

Bruce
 
Best bets:

-Argentina (especially if they can overrun the rest of southern South America)
-Austria-Hungary
-Brazil
-China
-*maybe* Italy
-Ottomans
-Russia
-Japan

Russia was a superpower OTL for a while. Italy? There's one hell of a challenge. Argentina - how are we defining "superpower?" I mean, if you aren't accounting for, say, at least 10% of the world's economy, or are able to at least blow it up, I really don't see it.

Bruce
 
Here is an idea,

Bulgaria, before the fall under the Ottomans had a population size akin to that of the Germans, Franks and Italians (Lombards/Romans) and Rus', so if they manage not to fall to the Ottomans and survive years of brutal warfare to grow into a strong empire over the South Slavs you can have them grow to a Great Power status once the Ottomans fall and maybe eventually into a superpower status. But that will radically change the world as we know it.


Here is another,

Taking a different PoD you can have an Ethiopia grow in a different way in africa, coming to dominate a far larger territory, more people and holding a contact with the western world so it doesn't fall under colonialism, eventually it can grow into a Superpower over Africa given the right butterflies.

And another,

Robespierre somehow reforms France and takes her into a new great power status, given the right butterflies France grows exponentially and grows to dominate Europe, maybe unite Germany and Italy under their sphere and eventually grow to dominate the world.

And another,

Vinland survives and thrives, establishes dominance over natives, grows in power to dominate North America or at least the coastline, makes contact with Europeans, keeps independence and eventually becomes a superpower.

And,
one of the Andean or South American civilizations thrives and makes contact with Europeans or Asians in some way early on, allowing it to survive and build up the immune system against the viruses that devastated them and also brings in technological progress and horses. Eventually develops into a superpower.
 
Here is an idea,

Bulgaria, before the fall under the Ottomans had a population size akin to that of the Germans, Franks and Italians (Lombards/Romans) and Rus',

Er, I don't know where you're getting that: according to my world population history, Bulgaria had only a fraction of the population of France or Germany in the 13th century, and certainly was a lot smaller. Anyway, these suggestions are all before or waaay before 1860.

Bruce
 
Er, I don't know where you're getting that: according to my world population history, Bulgaria had only a fraction of the population of France or Germany in the 13th century, and certainly was a lot smaller. Anyway, these suggestions are all before or waaay before 1860.

Bruce

Oh shit, didn't notice the 1860 PoD, mah bad.
 
Having one great power gain the Spanish Philippines, Dutch Indonesia, and British Malaya to unite greater Indomalaya under a single language and administration could lead to a more powerful Indonesia once it gained independence.
 
Er, I don't know where you're getting that: according to my world population history, Bulgaria had only a fraction of the population of France or Germany in the 13th century, and certainly was a lot smaller. Anyway, these suggestions are all before or waaay before 1860.

Bruce
Could you give us a source for this information?
 
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