AHC : Create a Scientocratic state from medieval universities

I remember having read that universities once had parliamentary representation in the UK (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_constituency).

Would it be possible to have, at the example of clerical states within HRE, to see some 'scientocratic' states emerging out of universities, and at which time?

Right there, I would imagine some ruler in HRE during Middle Ages entrusting the government of some city to university scholars, perhaps the university chancellor before the practice eventually becomes permanent and gives way to a distinct socio-political entity. Bonus if a 'Rector' (or Chancellor) becomes Imperial Elector, and another if this form of government survives to present day.
 
It's difficult.
Part of the problem is that universal ie general nontrade education was strongly associated with the Church. Primarily because it was expensive and the Church could subsidise easier than the local lord could.
What's needed is earlier wider investment by the Emperor who then gets a tangible asset from it.
 
You basically need an equivalent to the maesters from Game of Thrones. Scribes that are secular rather than religious, who preserve knowledge, and conduct research.
 
In Denmark the Danish king gave massive territorial areas to Copenhagen university as a way to fund it. I could see a German emperor setting up a university with similar way of funding, and slowly this area evolve into a university-principality ruled by a prince-rector.
 
Interesting idea.

I agree with the @The Professor ... It not gone happens in medieval times as there is no science outside the Church. All the Universities were linked to the Church and worked (mainly) for the Church.

However, let say that somewhere in the norther Germany, an University of the taille of one in Paris emerge and the local Prince decide to offer huge lands and privileges to it (not uncommonly, as the abbeys have huge fortunes and lands sometime even greater than other counts). That Principality become overtime linked with the University and the Princes were awarded an honorific place int the Senate of the University.

Then come the Renaissance and the Reform and thing get ugly... The University supported a more reformist branch and split with the Church, backed by the local Prince. Let say that the Prince has no heirs and decide to donate its Principality to the University. The rector become Prince, while the University itself secularized even further.

Becoming Prince Elector is harder and also might happens only later... after the 30 years war.

However, attention to butterflies. The biggest issue is that the presence of a such big university in North of Germany might alter the reform significantly... and the entire politics..

Anyway... that's are my toughs....
 
Careful what you wish for, as the infant days of science was very similar to codified philosophy or puffed-up religion complete with dogmas and hard beliefs. Too early a 'scientocracy' ('technocracy' might be the word you're searching for) may actually be counter-productive for the development of science.
 
Interesting idea.

I agree with the @The Professor ... It not gone happens in medieval times as there is no science outside the Church. All the Universities were linked to the Church and worked (mainly) for the Church.

However, let say that somewhere in the norther Germany, an University of the taille of one in Paris emerge and the local Prince decide to offer huge lands and privileges to it (not uncommonly, as the abbeys have huge fortunes and lands sometime even greater than other counts). That Principality become overtime linked with the University and the Princes were awarded an honorific place int the Senate of the University.

Then come the Renaissance and the Reform and thing get ugly... The University supported a more reformist branch and split with the Church, backed by the local Prince. Let say that the Prince has no heirs and decide to donate its Principality to the University. The rector become Prince, while the University itself secularized even further.

Becoming Prince Elector is harder and also might happens only later... after the 30 years war.

However, attention to butterflies. The biggest issue is that the presence of a such big university in North of Germany might alter the reform significantly... and the entire politics..

Anyway... that's are my toughs....

I'm not speaking really of having that scientocratic state to be created in middle age, but also possibly as the conclusion of a trend we would begin in that period, and if I take HRE, that's because I think that's the most favorable environment for that.

So, speaking of northern Germany, that may fit it. If we are starting on the base of a university, tied to the Church in the beginning, but that would break with it during the Protestant Reformation era in 16th century and somewhat survive the conflicts that follow, possibly on an island like with Brahe's Uraniborg, that could be a base for that idea.
 
It's difficult.
Part of the problem is that universal ie general nontrade education was strongly associated with the Church. Primarily because it was expensive and the Church could subsidise easier than the local lord could.
What's needed is earlier wider investment by the Emperor who then gets a tangible asset from it.

Scientocracy and education controlled by the Church aren't mutually exclusive. It's a modern myth that the Catholic Church opposed the spread of knowledge and the development of technology. At least not in the Middle Ages.
 
Hm, I remember something about the city of Oxford being basically half-owned by the universities, so if a free city-state can develop in such a direction, it seems plausible for a city to be run by school administrators.

Right there, I would imagine some ruler in HRE during Middle Ages entrusting the government of some city to university scholars, perhaps the university chancellor before the practice eventually becomes permanent and gives way to a distinct socio-political entity. Bonus if a 'Rector' (or Chancellor) becomes Imperial Elector, and another if this form of government survives to present day.

Yeah, that's probably the best way. Maybe one of the Italian city-states slowly gets taken over by a bunch of universities surrounding it, and later develops into its own independent scholar-princedom? :p
 
I agree with the @The Professor ... It not gone happens in medieval times as there is no science outside the Church. All the Universities were linked to the Church and worked (mainly) for the Church.

Didn't stop most bishops from basically acting as princes. I mean, look at all these Prince-Bishoprics. And heck, all the monasteries and monastic orders also acted semi-independently from the Church, which is why they got so rich and powerful in the first place.

Because the Church is not a single, monolithic entity.
 
What you would get is a Scholastic city state not a Scientific one, because science does not really exist before 17th C (ducks and waits for rotten apples to pass by). Such a state is no more likely to pursue science than any other state at the same time, even leaving aside the religious issues.
 
Scientocracy and education controlled by the Church aren't mutually exclusive. It's a modern myth that the Catholic Church opposed the spread of knowledge and the development of technology. At least not in the Middle Ages.
I didn't say otherwise.
The problem is that a university state controlled by the Church is more a clerical state than a pure technocratic or "scientocratic" one.
 
That can still be more science/philosophy oriented, and transforms into a more scientocratic state with the successive evolutions towards secularism and rationalism with the result being a 'true scientocratic state' by 19th century and the industrial revolution at latest.
 
That can still be more science/philosophy oriented, and transforms into a more scientocratic state with the successive evolutions towards secularism and rationalism with the result being a 'true scientocratic state' by 19th century and the industrial revolution at latest.
No. The universities were not centres of science until the 19th C (arguably late 19th C). Science was really started in gentlemen's clubs and courts of enlightened autocratic monarchs.
A university state would be a poor base for a gentleman scientist.
 
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