AHC: Conscription in the 2000s

NothingNow

Banned
How could you get the draft reinstated with a POD after 9/11?

With an even stupider legislature, you could force it over the objections of literally the entire DoD, and a majority of the US population (well, except the baby boomers, it isn't happening to them this time, so why should they give a fuck?) Hell, you could probably even get them to mutiny in protest, given how much the military as a whole was against the idea when someone proposed it IOTL.

You'd see earlier open resentment of society by the tail end of Generation X and the Millennials who are affected, and yeah, that's going to cause some serious unrest.

Usually with the logical train of:
1)Boomers don't like getting drafted, protest it and win and end to the draft.
2)Boomers don't like paying taxes, cut taxes.
3)Tax cuts require cutting social programs and education, Boomers aren't affected, pass debt burden onward.
4)We deal with deficiencies in social programs and education, get told how easy we have it.
5)Boomers refuse to retire. Shut down fucking escalator of advancement. No good Jobs for us.
6)Boomers pass debt on to us.
7)Suddenly Terrorism!
8)Scared Boomers reinstate Draft, it affects us. Boomers mention something about it being our civic duty, and "when we were your age."
9)?????
10)Riot.
 
With an even stupider legislature, you could force it over the objections of literally the entire DoD, and a majority of the US population (well, except the baby boomers, it isn't happening to them this time, so why should they give a fuck?) Hell, you could probably even get them to mutiny in protest, given how much the military as a whole was against the idea when someone proposed it IOTL.

You'd see earlier open resentment of society by the tail end of Generation X and the Millennials who are affected, and yeah, that's going to cause some serious unrest.

Usually with the logical train of:
1)Boomers don't like getting drafted, protest it and win and end to the draft.
2)Boomers don't like paying taxes, cut taxes.
3)Tax cuts require cutting social programs and education, Boomers aren't affected, pass debt burden onward.
4)We deal with deficiencies in social programs and education, get told how easy we have it.
5)Boomers refuse to retire. Shut down fucking escalator of advancement. No good Jobs for us.
6)Boomers pass debt on to us.
7)Suddenly Terrorism!
8)Scared Boomers reinstate Draft, it affects us. Boomers mention something about it being our civic duty, and "when we were your age."
9)?????
10)Riot.


That seems to be about the size of it.

Even now the most self centered generation in AMerican history is dead set on having everything their own way, no matter how badly it hurts the U.S>
 

JoeMulk

Banned
That seems to be about the size of it.

Even now the most self centered generation in AMerican history is dead set on having everything their own way, no matter how badly it hurts the U.S>

At least they gave us good music and a generally less bland culture...
 

NothingNow

Banned
At least they gave us good music and a generally less bland culture...

Um no, that was their elders for the most part, and really, up until the 70's, most musical acts and artists etc were pre-boomers.
They're responsible really for pretty much the 70's and the 80's. not exactly the best time in American culture. They were the Yuppies, the culture of excess was their creation, as was the Reagan Revolution.

Seriously, remember Disco? That was the Baby Boomers.
 

JoeMulk

Banned
True, not so much there parents as older brothers and sisters though. Although punk rock was also largely the boomers but that wasn't really mainstream when it was new.
 

NothingNow

Banned
I wonder, did the Baby boomers ever do ANYTHING but go along fat dumb and happy as if the world owed them a living?

They did some good (ended the draft, lowered the voting age to 18, briefly lowered the legal drinking age in places and then there was the development of the tech industry as we know it) but they outweighed all of that with a hell of a lot of bad, with either good, or very self interested intentions.

But that was the American Boomers, who just sort of had massive egos from the start, unlike their parents who had lived through some shit, and except for the rampant racism and sexism of the era, did deserve the whole Greatest Generation Thing, much as the Lost Generation earned theirs.

I'm not too sure about what happened in the rest of the Anglosphere much less outside it.
 
Gen X er here

The big problem with conscription is that you gotta find something for all those boys (and girls) to do that actually accomplishes something worthwhile.

My big argument is that Vietnam turned into a platinum-standard C/F when it went from 10K advisers to 500K+ with every service getting a piece of the pie.
More people on the ground wasn't the solution then.
It made rotating grunts through on annual tours possible, when really, you needed less troops, better training, doctrine, and strategy. We still honored our commitments to NATO, Japan, ROK, et al. BECAUSe conscription gave them plenty of bodies to work with.

Iraq was a C/F waiting to happen when
(A) nobody thought about the end-game when they actually won;
(B) Wolfowitz, Bremer, et al decided de-Baathification was a good idea, removing the structure that kept public order and turned plenty of trained, capable, pissed off Iraqis loose with surplus Iraqi gear to wreak havoc.

More troops on the ground helped, but so did adjusting the doctrine, giving US troops theater/CA training, and bribing lots of locals into Al-Dawa who were sick and tired of AQI's nonsense anyway to take control of their own communities.

I'm arguing that yes, Americans have this entitled self-indulgent attitude that service is for folks that don't have many better choices and you're a sucker if you pay full-price for anything.
We reject taxes when we feel it's wasted on other people, but don't mind imposing sin taxes on poor people or addicts we feel we'll never pay.
We re-elected "W" b/c he asked the least of us.

IMO, we need an FDR type to talk straight about what's up and what we can do to help. As a citizen I have rights, but I also have personal and social responsibilities. Reminding me of that and encouraging folks like me that we can pull together and move from cleaning up a mess to making us a nation worth admiring again. Simple, but not easy.
 
To get back on the original topic, the easiest way here for this to happen is for 9/11 to be a bit worse (let's say Flight 93 gets through and hits the Capitol or White House) and Bush/Cheney basically decide to take advantage of the situation to go to war with everyone in the Middle East that's so much as looked crosseyed at the US over the years, and that would include Iran. Given that the link between Iraq and 9/11 and evidence of Iraqi WMDs were fabricated, it wouldn't have taken much to throw Iran in the mix as well. To fulfill that neocon wet dream, you'd need more bodies than the all-volunteer services could provide and thus, you'd need conscription. Given the ease with which the war in Iraq was approved as well as the general mood of the time, I can't imagine a whole lot of opposition to the idea of tacking Iran on as well.

This would, of course, be a complete fiasco, but, then again, so was Iraq.
 
Ok, lets make Flight 93 the first one to hit and the target be the Capitol WITH CONGRESS IN SESSION.

That probably requires a very different date, but the effect should be massive.
 

NothingNow

Banned
Ok, lets make Flight 93 the first one to hit and the target be the Capitol WITH CONGRESS IN SESSION.

That probably requires a very different date, but the effect should be massive.

Yeah, it'll kill the idiot who seriously proposed bringing it back.
 
Ah, but soon there will be plenty of new idiots in town :)

And they will be baying for blood and ready to support any wild idea...


Hm, the senate can be replaced in days, wonder how fast they can replace the house if needed ?
 
Ah, but soon there will be plenty of new idiots in town :)

And they will be baying for blood and ready to support any wild idea...


Hm, the senate can be replaced in days, wonder how fast they can replace the house if needed ?

It would take several months to replace the House as it would involve holding a series of special primary and general elections in the various states to reconstitute the House membership, as House vacancies are filled by election rather than gubernatorial appointment as a matter of Constiturional mandate which cannot be waived (Art. I, Sect. 2). The new House would then have to organize itself from scratch, appointing officers and naming members to committees. I'd estimate that this could take as long as 3 months and perhaps longer before the House is a fully reconstituted and functioning institution, as the various states have their own timetables under which special elections must be held. At a minimum, assuming state legislatures advanced the election timetable to meet the emergency, I can't see it being less than 3 months, with 1 month until a primary, another until a general election and another month for organization and election of House officials. This would be a very messy scenario indeed, although theoretically a handful of surviving Members could act as the House, as the number of members required for a quorum is reduced by vacancies; i.e. if 25 Members survived, a quorum would be 13.
 
With an even stupider legislature, you could force it over the objections of literally the entire DoD, and a majority of the US population (well, except the baby boomers, it isn't happening to them this time, so why should they give a fuck?) Hell, you could probably even get them to mutiny in protest, given how much the military as a whole was against the idea when someone proposed it IOTL.

You'd see earlier open resentment of society by the tail end of Generation X and the Millennials who are affected, and yeah, that's going to cause some serious unrest.

Usually with the logical train of:
1)Boomers don't like getting drafted, protest it and win and end to the draft.
2)Boomers don't like paying taxes, cut taxes.
3)Tax cuts require cutting social programs and education, Boomers aren't affected, pass debt burden onward.
4)We deal with deficiencies in social programs and education, get told how easy we have it.
5)Boomers refuse to retire. Shut down fucking escalator of advancement. No good Jobs for us.
6)Boomers pass debt on to us.
7)Suddenly Terrorism!
8)Scared Boomers reinstate Draft, it affects us. Boomers mention something about it being our civic duty, and "when we were your age."
9)We realize all of 1-8, refuse to be drafted, and tell the Baby Boomers to shut up or we take away Medicare.
10)Riot.
Hope that helped.
 
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