AHC: Conquistadors in 16th century Rus!

whitecrow

Banned
By now many of you have probably heard of the (in)famous “historical” show Deadliest Warrior where various past-&-present soldiers and famous personalities are pitted against one another.

One of the recent match-ups involved Tsar Ivan the Terrible and Conquistador Hernán Cortés.

I don’t know about the rest of you, but I find this particular duel rather interesting, especially considering the two had lived rather close together chronologically.

So here is your challenge: get 16th century Conquistadors to do battle in Rus/Eastern Europe against one of the powers in the region (and no, it doesn’t have to be Tsar Ivan the Terrible vs. Conquistador Hernán Cortés).
 

PhilippeO

Banned
One of Spanish infante get elected to be king of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth ? he bring conquistador veteran as personal bodyguard.
 
So here is your challenge: get 16th century Conquistadors to do battle in Rus/Eastern Europe against one of the powers in the region (and no, it doesn’t have to be Tsar Ivan the Terrible vs. Conquistador Hernán Cortés).

Sooooo....cannon, musketeers, and armoured lancers, against cannon, musketeers, and armoured horse archers?

I suppose the steadiness of European pikemen as opposed to the more fortification-oriented Russian infantry might make a difference in the field, but what circumstances are you considering this clash under, exactly?

Russia and Spain weren't that terribly different technologically. You can compare Spanish efforts against the Turks, or Russians vs. Poland/Sweden/Livonia to get an approximate feel of how certain engagements could go.

As for how it could be achieved, it's pretty simple. Mercenaries. Scots fought on both sides in the Livonian war, and the conquistadores were more pan-European than simply Spanish.
 
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You can compare Spanish efforts against the Turks, or Russians vs. Poland/Sweden/Livonia to get an approximate feel of how certain engagements could go.

There was a period in the history of Russia when it was nearly overwhelmed by Polish 'conquistadors'.
Actually it was the very beginning of 17th century.


Battle of Klushino - when the Russians were beaten by the Poles like the Aztecs (or Incas) were beaten by the Spaniards

For some time the Poles felt themselves in Russia like conquistadors felt somewhere in America.

the famous polish 'winged' hussars

Husarz1.jpg
 
There was a period in the history of Russia when it was nearly overwhelmed by Polish 'conquistadors'.
Actually it was the very beginning of 17th century.

Battle of Klushino - when the Russians were beaten by the Poles like the Aztecs (or Incas) were beaten by the Spaniards

For some time the Poles felt themselves in Russia like conquistadors felt somewhere in America.

the famous polish 'winged' hussars

Period Russian infantry wasn't all that good in the field, that's complete truth. That's because they liked fighting behind fortifications, mobile or permanent (gulay-gorod or kremlins, in other words).

At Klushino, well. Conquistadores beat Conquistadores there, since De La Gardie was a major factor in the defeat, and Time of Troubles was generally kind of rough on Russian morale.

Still, brilliant victory for Poland and its hussars.
 
Battle of Orsha (1514) would be better example. Apart from Light Hussar/Racowie component, Polish army was still Western European in style at this time (heavy lancers on barded warhorses, artillery, pikemen/arquebusier landsknecht style infantry).

Some fragments from huge 16th century painting depicting that battle:

685px-Battle_of_Orsha2.JPG


Polish-Russian_battle_1514.PNG
 
Well the Livonians were in Russia. But if you want Russia to have conquistadors in it, perhaps a more Islamified Russia? A crusade lead by the Polish and Teutons against the Islamic Russia takes place in the 15th century? But that could be straight ASB.
 
Battle of Orsha (1514) would be better example. Apart from Light Hussar/Racowie component, Polish army was still Western European in style at this time (heavy lancers on barded warhorses, artillery, pikemen/arquebusier landsknecht style infantry).

Some fragments from huge 16th century painting depicting that battle:

Yes and no.

Yes: in the picture of yours it's more conquistadorishlike. I nearly see Cortes in the battle. Awesome:)
No: the Russians won this war. So it is 'other way round' - Cortes lost:)

When I spoke about Klushino-1610 I meant that literally a few Polish cutthroats scattered multitudes of Russian warriors.
Very similar to 'Conquistadors-Indians' situation.

And that was true for a few years - the mighty brave and proud Poles were the masters on the battlefields of Russia.
Extremely humiliating experience for my country.

For some time it even seemed that there was no hope, that the Poles were invincible...

4044.jpg
 

Maur

Banned
1.1 Episode 1: Apache vs. Gladiator
1.2 Episode 2: Viking vs. Samurai
1.3 Episode 3: Spartan vs. Ninja
1.4 Episode 4: Pirate vs. Knight
1.5 Episode 5: Yakuza vs. Mafia
1.6 Episode 6: Green Beret vs. Spetsnaz
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1.8 Episode 8: William Wallace vs. Shaka Zulu
1.9 Episode 9: IRA vs. Taliban
1.10 Back for Blood special
So bad it hurts my eyes :D
 

whitecrow

Banned
Guys, I think you are missing the point here. I know there were attempts by “westerners” at the time to “colonize” Russia and that Russians in turn were colonizing Siberia.

But the goal is to come up with a situation where Spanish and/or Portuguese conquistadors somehow end up in Eastern Europe fighting for or against one of the local powers.
 
But the goal is to come up with a situation where Spanish and/or Portuguese conquistadors somehow end up in Eastern Europe fighting for or against one of the local powers.

It's actually really, really, simple. A sizable pan-Mediterranean mercenary force like Pizarro's wouldn't really be out of place in a Polish army, alongside with the Scots and all. Except then they'd probably run into Germans more than actual Russians, depending on the time period.
 
Is it possible for Russian mercenaries to fight in the Italian Wars or the Dutch War of Independence?

Ehhhh...Russia had a service gentry, a service cossackry, salaried musketeer corps, and various native allies as its core force, all of which have national or feudal obligations rather than monetary interests. Unless the Tsar specifically sends someone, the time for Russian freebooters is coming to an end, and Siberia is more attractive anyway.

Artillerymen or Cossacks are your best bet, probably, if anything like that is at all possible.
 
Is it possible for Russian mercenaries to fight in the Italian Wars or the Dutch War of Independence?

I am afraid that was unlikely. It was not usual for a Russian to go to Europe as a mercenary or whatever. During this period.

But some individuals could do it. Mainly as a game of chance.
For example some Turkish galley could be captured by Europeans and Russian slave from it could be set free (as a Christian) and took part in some European war.
 

Sang

Banned
During the Middle Ages, Italian and German mercenaries were used everywhere.

You could have a Spanish General - who is charge of leading a large army that contains Conquistadores - defect, and somehow end up as a mercenary serving the King of Poland. It would be perfectly possible, not unrealistic at all. That way you could have Conquistadores fighting against Russia.

Another possibility, is to have a Spaniard seize the Polish throne, and make him bring Spanish soldiers into Poland, including Conquistadores. That way you could have Conquistadores fighting against Russia, too.

I'm out of ideas.

I have no idea how would the Spanish Conquistadores - who are used to Spain's Mediterranean climate - endure the cold climate of Poland and Russia. They'd probably end up like Napoleon's soldiers in Moscow.
 
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