AHC: Confucian India

With a POD of 600 AD, make the all states in the territory of the Indian Subcontinent governed by strict Confucian principles by the year 1200.

Bonus points if you somehow manage to destroy Hinduism as a major religion during this time period.
 
With a POD of 600 AD, make the all states in the territory of the Indian Subcontinent governed by strict Confucian principles by the year 1200.

Bonus points if you somehow manage to destroy Hinduism as a major religion during this time period.

So, in other words, have something akin to the reverse of Buddhism's spread to China?

Extraordinarily difficult. Yes, Indian culture has a long history of welcoming new ideas without too much strife; but these ideas never become dominant in India. Even Islam, which ruled the subcontinent for nearly 300 years, did not manage to fundamentally change the structure of Indian culture.

Indian culture is remarkably resilient; I could see, however, a culturally Indian state in SE Asia become aligned to Confucian values in that time frame. I don't have enough knowledge to give candidates for a good time and place, however.

Cheers,
Ganesha
 
I can't see Confucianism really replacing anything at all. After all, it's a philosophy, not a religion. It was spread by scholars and bureaucrats operating out of palaces and offices rather than priests working in temples. And it coexisted to an extraordinary degree with Buddhism and even more oddly Taoism, which is its opposite for all intents and purposes. The typical Chinese person back then would not see it as hypocritical to take part in Taoist rites and beliefs while still espousing Confucian values in public and at work.
 
To me it seemed that Confucianism was always the philosophy for the secular world whereas Daoism and Buddhism were for mystical/spiritual functions. It's kind of the equivalent of knowing basic math versus being a scholar of the weird math theories that nobody except people in universities knows about.
 
Maybe if it spread into Indochina, Thailand, Burma... from Szichuan...

And then, into the east of India, Assam... Asian minorities?
 
Maybe if it spread into Indochina, Thailand, Burma... from Szichuan...

And then, into the east of India, Assam... Asian minorities?

Confucianism is a philosophy which is very much concerned with a semi-urbanised organised state. There aren't many of these in Assam and Burma at the time.
 
Who would transmit the ideas of Confucianism? Buddhism was spread by merchants (and some missionaries), but Confucianism would have to be transmitted by the educated literati who know how the ideas well. And these scholar-officials are some of the last people who would travel all the way from China to India in order to spread Confucianism.

That being said, I could see some impetus for spreading Confucianism. I think it was one of the Confucian masters, maybe Confucius, who said that a sage could spread civilization among barbarians. This could be interpreted in an evangelical way. Perhaps a scholar-official, who knows Confucianism well but also knows Buddhism and has a knowledge of some Indian languages, gets kidnapped by pirates, fins his way in India, and decides to transmit the Confucian texts to India. Given the fact that some scholars memorized entire texts, this guy could write them down from memory, translate them, and try to spread the ideas.

However, I can't imagine India actually adopting many ideas, except for maybe the concept of imperial examinations.
 
Who would transmit the ideas of Confucianism? Buddhism was spread by merchants (and some missionaries), but Confucianism would have to be transmitted by the educated literati who know how the ideas well. And these scholar-officials are some of the last people who would travel all the way from China to India in order to spread Confucianism.

That being said, I could see some impetus for spreading Confucianism. I think it was one of the Confucian masters, maybe Confucius, who said that a sage could spread civilization among barbarians. This could be interpreted in an evangelical way. Perhaps a scholar-official, who knows Confucianism well but also knows Buddhism and has a knowledge of some Indian languages, gets kidnapped by pirates, fins his way in India, and decides to transmit the Confucian texts to India. Given the fact that some scholars memorized entire texts, this guy could write them down from memory, translate them, and try to spread the ideas.

However, I can't imagine India actually adopting many ideas, except for maybe the concept of imperial examinations.

Yup- but just having one guy try to spread the ideas is unlikely to work. Local Indian scholars are just going to see him as some washed up barbarian. Imperial examinations are another issue- something that, say, the Mughals might have adopted.
 
POD: The conditions for the Anshi revolts are butterflied away in the early 700s.

Result: The Turkic peoples are more heavily influenced by the Chinese. Afghanistan turns more towards a Chinese influenced style of government. When the analogues to the Ghorids roll around, they overrun India and establish a Chinese style Imperial Court in the Ganges River valley.
 
Confucianism is a philosophy which is very much concerned with a semi-urbanised organised state. There aren't many of these in Assam and Burma at the time.

Yeah, but later maybe... Like Ming or Qing dynasty time, Neoconfucianism.. ASB probably still.

YLI, I like your idea.
 
POD: The conditions for the Anshi revolts are butterflied away in the early 700s.

Result: The Turkic peoples are more heavily influenced by the Chinese. Afghanistan turns more towards a Chinese influenced style of government. When the analogues to the Ghorids roll around, they overrun India and establish a Chinese style Imperial Court in the Ganges River valley.

I think this could work, but the expansion of Islam into Central Asia might have to be halted. If you get rid of the Anshi revolt but the Battle of Talas still happens on cue, then you might not have Confucianism in Central Asia.
 
I think this could work, but the expansion of Islam into Central Asia might have to be halted. If you get rid of the Anshi revolt but the Battle of Talas still happens on cue, then you might not have Confucianism in Central Asia.

Talas was a minor setback at best. Two years later, the Tang army went and conquered Tajikistan. What set back China in Central Asia in the long term was the Anshi Rebellion.
 
Top