AHC: Communist Hitler, Fascist Stalin

[Mort the Reaper]

Your challenge is to have Hitler become a communist and Stalin become a fascist, rather than the other way around. They don't necessarily have to end up in positions of power, just hold those ideologies.

Just in case anyone asks, I put this in Before 1900 because Stalin at the very least started flirting with Marxism before the century changed.

 

[tus3]

Just in case anyone asks, I put this in Before 1900 because Stalin at the very least started flirting with Marxism before the century changed.

Why can't Staling first go left only to become a fascist later, like Benito Mussolini?
Mmh, we already have a communist Hitler TL. So now I wonder what a fascist Stalin would look like.

 

[Born in the USSA]

Why can't Staling first go left only to become a fascist later, like Benito Mussolini?
Mmh, we already have a communist Hitler TL. So now I wonder what a fascist Stalin would look like.

*Laughs in Republican Union*

 

[Born in the USSA]

Your challenge is to have Hitler become a communist and Stalin become a fascist, rather than the other way around. They don't necessarily have to end up in positions of power, just hold those ideologies.

Just in case anyone asks, I put this in Before 1900 because Stalin at the very least started flirting with Marxism before the century changed.

I suppose if Stalin had stuck with his mother's plan to become a priest for a bit longer it could result in a Stalin who becomes a reactionary rather than a revolutionary as the path to power in the lead up to the Russian Revolution. A White victory in a scenario where the Tsar and his family still die could see a reactionary fascist regime shore up the country in the aftermath. Meanwhile a Spartacist success in Germany could see an alternate Hitler at the political right fringe of Council Communism.

 

[Jan Olbracht]

Stalin could not be Russia's version of Hitler for very simple reason-he was not Russian.

 

[Comte de Dordogne]

Stalin could not be Russia's version of Hitler for very simple reason-he was not Russian.

Hitler was Austrian, in addition Hitler and most Nazi cadres were short, dark-haired and brown-eyed.
So good... 🙃

 

[the Imperium of Canada]

Hitler was Austrian, in addition Hitler and most Nazi cadres were short, dark-haired and brown-eyed.
So good... 🙃

To my knowledge austrians were considered pretty much germans with a slightly different culture. I'm pretty sure that's not the case with georgians and russians, though correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Thisisnotausername]

Stalin could not be Russia's version of Hitler for very simple reason-he was not Russian.

OP specifically said that neither needs to end up in charge of their respective states, just adherents of the ideology in question: Ioseb Jughashvili, leader of the Georgian National Fascist Party, would satisfy OP's criteria just fine.

 

[garfieldleifrag]

It would be pretty easy to have neither of them rise to power, and as private citizens they happen to end up with those political views.

 

[redjirachi]

Insert Horseshoe Theory Joke Here

Flipping Hitler seems it'd be easier as Karl Marx does come from Germany and Hitler started as a bohemian painter. Maybe he never gets into WWI and instead joins the 1910s Austrian equivalent of leftypol

 

[Comte de Dordogne]

To my knowledge austrians were considered pretty much germans with a slightly different culture. I'm pretty sure that's not the case with georgians and russians, though correct me if I'm wrong.

Indeed, you are perfectly right.
My message was meant to show that you don't have to be a native of a particular country to become its fascist leader (although it helps a lot). Nor does the leader have to be the perfect model of his ideology for him to succeed.

 

[tus3]

Stalin could not be Russia's version of Hitler for very simple reason-he was not Russian.

Or Stalin could be a clerical fascist in the vein of the Romanian Iron Guard instead of a race-based fascist like Hitler. Or an Italian-style fascist, Benito Mussolini was fine with yews being in his fascist party before he made an alliance with Hitler.

 

[Mort the Reaper]

I suppose if Stalin had stuck with his mother's plan to become a priest for a bit longer it could result in a Stalin who becomes a reactionary rather than a revolutionary as the path to power in the lead up to the Russian Revolution. A White victory in a scenario where the Tsar and his family still die could see a reactionary fascist regime shore up the country in the aftermath. Meanwhile a Spartacist success in Germany could see an alternate Hitler at the political right fringe of Council Communism.

Minor nitpick, but while fascism definitely had some reactionary elements, it's generally considered a revolutionary ideology overall. To quote Modris Eksteins:

It was not a double-faced Janus whose aspects were equally attentive to the past and the future, nor was it a modern Proteus, the god of metamorphosis, who duplicates pre-existing forms. The intention of the movement was to create a new type of human being from whom would spring a new morality, a new social system, and eventually a new international order. That was, in fact, the intention of all the fascist movements. After a visit to Italy and a meeting with Mussolini, Oswald Mosley wrote that fascism "has produced not only a new system of government, but also a new type of man, who differs from politicians of the old world as men from another planet."

 

[Born in the USSA]

Minor nitpick, but while fascism definitely had some reactionary elements, it's generally considered a revolutionary ideology overall. To quote Modris Eksteins:

I use "reactionary" in a way that is very excited with large scale societal transformation as a right wing antonym for revolutionary leftism. If I were to describe alt-Stalin's movement as opposed to revolution it would simply have been called conservative.

 

[Mort the Reaper]

I use "reactionary" in a way that is very excited with large scale societal transformation as a right wing antonym for revolutionary leftism. If I were to describe alt-Stalin's movement as opposed to revolution it would simply have been called conservative.

Ah, I see.

 

[redjirachi]

Stalin could not be Russia's version of Hitler for very simple reason-he was not Russian.

You are technically correct; the best kind of correct

 

[Mort the Reaper]

Why can't Staling first go left only to become a fascist later, like Benito Mussolini?
Mmh, we already have a communist Hitler TL. So now I wonder what a fascist Stalin would look like.

Eh, I'll allow it.

 

[Night Gaul]

Trotsky and Hitler were apparently living in Vienna at the same time. Maybe they become friends and Hitler decides Marxism is the way of the future?

 

[kham_coc]

Hitler was Austrian, in addition Hitler and most Nazi cadres were short, dark-haired and brown-eyed.
So good... 🙃

The people most likely to object to Hitler not being German, are the very same people who insists Austrians are Germans.

 

[Library of Alexandria]

Shouldn't be too hard. Maybe Jughashvili becomes a priest after all, and then ends up allying with the Black Hundredists, whereas Hitler ends up taking over a DKP-led (or even USPD-led, for something interesting) German Republic which is suffering hard times?