AHC : Colonise the New World without using an establish country.

As per the title. How do you colonise the new world, without Royal Sponsors, backing of colonies by a navy supplied from Europe.

Quite literally, how does a European found a New World colony, sans direct royal support?
 
Turn it over to the Church and have the Pope dispatch missions to convert the continent to Catholicism?

Surely that would simply have it count as part of the Papal States?

Although, the idea of the Pope as a sponsor is certainly an interesting idea. The poor come to Rome, and Rome pays to send them to the New World, complete with supplies, navigator, a map - and to spread Christendom.

I could see that working and creating lots of independent statelets in the Lesser Antilles. Twinned leadership of a secular head and a bishop/vicar/church rep, that could form the heart of a confederation/federation tied together by the Church, with larger expeditions eventually leading to the Greater Antilles.

The way to have it happen would be mad though - an alt-Treaty of Tordesillas where the Pope says "It is for neither, it is for Christian Pilgrims". It could be interesting to see monarchs denied, but minor nobles who don't inherit to fund, or jointly fund with other minor nobles, colonisation missions since, well, at home they aren't going to get land. Their fathers might even help fund them as it bring stability to the estate.
 
Surely that would simply have it count as part of the Papal States?

Although, the idea of the Pope as a sponsor is certainly an interesting idea. The poor come to Rome, and Rome pays to send them to the New World, complete with supplies, navigator, a map - and to spread Christendom.

I could see that working and creating lots of independent statelets in the Lesser Antilles. Twinned leadership of a secular head and a bishop/vicar/church rep, that could form the heart of a confederation/federation tied together by the Church, with larger expeditions eventually leading to the Greater Antilles.

The way to have it happen would be mad though - an alt-Treaty of Tordesillas where the Pope says "It is for neither, it is for Christian Pilgrims". It could be interesting to see monarchs denied, but minor nobles who don't inherit to fund, or jointly fund with other minor nobles, colonisation missions since, well, at home they aren't going to get land. Their fathers might even help fund them as it bring stability to the estate.

We could see these becoming crucial financial sectors of the world, with storing gold and resources there in case of failures at home for royal families. They could be incredible trading hubs, and make the Carribean one of the richest places in the world even without their sugar and tobacco. Minor nobility could look after their families ownings, and even banks could be set up by these nobles in the face of gaining further wealth for their house.
 
We could see these becoming crucial financial sectors of the world, with storing gold and resources there in case of failures at home for royal families. They could be incredible trading hubs, and make the Carribean one of the richest places in the world even without their sugar and tobacco. Minor nobility could look after their families ownings, and even banks could be set up by these nobles in the face of gaining further wealth for their house.

You might be overstating their value as trade hubs, I don't expect that to happen unless there is further colonisation/formal relationships with native peoples (a Taino state, woo).

But a wealth store? That I could believe. A Lesser Antilles Banking industry could be an interesting phenomena with Modern Mexica and Taino states.
 
You might be overstating their value as trade hubs, I don't expect that to happen unless there is further colonisation/formal relationships with native peoples (a Taino state, woo).

But a wealth store? That I could believe. A Lesser Antilles Banking industry could be an interesting phenomena with Modern Mexica and Taino states.

Well, would a Christian based colonialism be greater or lesser? Would it be faster than in our timeline? I doubt it would be more effective at crushing people due to less centralisation. Hell, I'd love to see minor nobility taking peasants across to the new world to set up small duchies and Kingdoms.
 
Well, would a Christian based colonialism be greater or lesser? Would it be faster than in our timeline? I doubt it would be more effective at crushing people due to less centralisation. Hell, I'd love to see minor nobility taking peasants across to the new world to set up small duchies and Kingdoms.

I doubt it'd be faster because it'd be more piecemeal, but under the right conditions...

I imagine the 'titles' of these statelets would be based on each case at each time.
 
If he said that, I expect the kings of Spain and Portugal would just ignore him and go colonising anyway.

Almost certainly. Unless someone else in Europe took up the Popes side of the argument, or if the Pope took the drastic step to excommunicate the Kings of Spain and Portugal as a result. France taking a deal with the Pope - France gets recognised as the rightful Kings of Naples, in exchange for invading/breaking Spain. A fractured Iberia could be interesting.

Admittedly, this leads to a massive bloody war if France and any others join in, but it'd be an interesting timeline.
 
"Oh my, what is this thesis you speak of Martin?

Sounds interesting....oh wait, Pope not in charge of me? Why should I follow his commands on who owns the New World?"
or
"Sorry, Pope, what was that? Send as many Christians over as possible? Got it" *DUES VULT THE NATIVES.*

-Extreme simplification of what happens .

Either they ignore it, intentionally misinterpret it as send a massive army over as "pilgrims" that just happen to take orders from themselves, or the protestants don't get a rat's ass about those damn papists!
 
Hm. There's the possibility oppressed religious communities, perhaps schismatic Christians, Jews and Muslims, pooling their resources together and hire out a few ships, mercenaries and more than a few month's worth of supplies and venture out to the open sea, in the hope of securing a land hospitable to them. Depending on who's exactly putting up more than their fair share of the expedition, you could have a diversity of different governments in these New World statelets ranging from theocracies to pseudo-corporate republics.
 
If he said that, I expect the kings of Spain and Portugal would just ignore him and go colonising anyway.
Depends on how far back the POD is. If you start early enough, you could end up with a very weak or divided Spain, and word of a New World filtering back through, say, contacts with Basque whalers, or someone in the North Sea.
 
As per the title. How do you colonise the new world, without Royal Sponsors, backing of colonies by a navy supplied from Europe.

Quite literally, how does a European found a New World colony, sans direct royal support?
Have a Republic colonize the New World.:cool:
DutchEmpire15.png
 
I actually think it could still be done even with royal sponsorship. If you're goal is to have Europeans set up independent states in the New World from the get-go, Spanish colonisation might be the best way to go about it. The Spanish colonies were de facto independent fiefdoms anyway (to a degree); if you can make this in practice de jure, then basically you'd have a number of independent 'lordships' spanning the New World with only token vassalage to the King/Queen of Spain. I'm not sure exactly how to make this happen, but it's an interesting thought.
 
I actually think it could still be done even with royal sponsorship. If you're goal is to have Europeans set up independent states in the New World from the get-go, Spanish colonisation might be the best way to go about it. The Spanish colonies were de facto independent fiefdoms anyway (to a degree); if you can make this in practice de jure, then basically you'd have a number of independent 'lordships' spanning the New World with only token vassalage to the King/Queen of Spain. I'm not sure exactly how to make this happen, but it's an interesting thought.

That is how the Canary Islands were brought to heel. All it takes is an ambitious rich lesser noble, some ships and troops and diplomatic savvy to carve out a kingdom in the New World.
 

Deleted member 9338

I was thinking that the Pope sponsores a Jewish colony to remove Jews from Europe.
 
I was thinking that the Pope sponsores a Jewish colony to remove Jews from Europe.
Why on earth would the Pope want to do that? More often than not, the Popes were pretty okay with Jews, and not about to spend a lot of money on uprooting them without the consent of them or their rulers.
 
What about something equivalent to the Boer states, but in the New World rather than in Africa?
Settlers come over sponsored by one government, but then when another government takes over they desert and form their own independent state.

Or how about a Hapsburg victory in the 30 years war requires the return of the Netherlands to Spain, but only AFTER the Dutch West India Company has already established colonies in OTL New York. Then, Dutch who are unwilling to live under Spanish rule flee to North America, and establish their own state? At this point, the Netherlands aren't really an "established country" although they have been de facto independent for some decades....

Actually, a lot of the OTL colonies were established by private companies who got Royal approval (and Royal investment), but weren't fully owned by the crown. Could such a company be set up that does the same thing but without Royal investment? Would that count? I guess the worry is that the company wouldn't have naval protection in the case of a war, but then again, most colonial companies had their own navies, right?
 

Deleted member 9338

Why on earth would the Pope want to do that? More often than not, the Popes were pretty okay with Jews, and not about to spend a lot of money on uprooting them without the consent of them or their rulers.

I disagree that the Catholic Church under the Popes would be glad to be rid of the Jews, and the lands and businesses that were confiscated would pay for it.
 
Have Vinland, made up of small farmers and refugees from the Christianization of Scandinavia stay safe across the water for 500 years. Say 3-5000 of them to start with.

Basically have them grow at 2-3% a year for 500 years or so (1000-1500) and have no government bigger than the Althing.

That would be a sizable colony.
 
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