Not that hard, get the US to piss off the Frogs even harder after World War II while being less competent, and you could actually see France leaving NATO unlike OTL.
Nope. It left the integrated command of NATO in 1966, which is a VERY different thing.France left NATO in 1966
Nope. It left the integrated command of NATO in 1966, which is a VERY different thing.
If it left NATO, then why are there French troops in Afghanistanas part of NATO’s operation there, hmm? Oh, by the way, it reintegrated said integrated command under Sarkozy, who was president between 2007 and 2012 while the French troops answered the US’ call for help in 2001 as part of their treaty obligations.
Once again, wrong. France never left NATO. It left the integrated command, meaning that if WW3 happened, British, West German, Dutch, Belgian, etc., troops would be under a unified command but the French ones wouldn’t, even though they would fight alongside. You can see in wargaming exercises done by the US in the Eighties that the French troops are considered as part of the rest, with interesting remarks about expected Soviet advances towards Paris with neutrality offers. The big reason for leaving the integrated command was that, bluntly, we didn’t trust the US with our interests in mind. So we kept our military under our own command, unlike the Brits who coordinated even the nuclear response, because after Suez, noone really believed the US would sacrifice New York to protect Paris.Cooperation agreements were signed with NATO, but technically France was technically not part of the whole NATO things, it was a bit distant. I must admit I don't get how the whole NATO work, and I know Sarkozy reintegrated NATO in 2007. I however didn't know that there was still a strong alliance between NATO and France, that's interesting
France withdrew from the integrated military command in 1966 to pursue an independent defense system but returned to full participation in 2009.
France left NATO in 1966
Cooperation agreements were signed with NATO, but technically France was technically not part of the whole NATO things, it was a bit distant. I must admit I don't get how the whole NATO work, and I know Sarkozy reintegrated NATO in 2007. I however didn't know that there was still a strong alliance between NATO and France, that's interesting
France withdrew from the integrated military command in 1966 to pursue an independent defense system but returned to full participation in 2009.
Doubts over the strength of the relationship between the European states and the United States ebbed and flowed, along with doubts over the credibility of the NATO defense against a prospective Soviet invasion – doubts that led to the development of the independent French nuclear deterrent and the withdrawal of France from NATO's military structure in 1966.
This sounds like the plot of For All Time where a military regime in Paris fights to hold the colonies until the last man and teams up with various lil buddies like Franco, Salazar, and an independent Sardinia to form a latin, catholic, and vaguely reactionary fascistic system. Eventually Jean Bedel Bokassa becomes a Napoleon II: electric Boogaloo when France sees a period of major crisis.They go full military dictatorship in the 50s to preserve their crumbling empire and eventually become the voice of the Third World making economic and political agreements with various African, Asian, and South American leaders as they compete for markets and clout. The latter occurs as deals are made with colonial subjects to fill the military ranks in order to hold Algeria and the state goes grimdark with the methods needed to do so (knowledge of the atrocities stay hidden, the rebellious Algerians are viewed as religious extremists vs an oppressed people, urged on by outsiders with an agenda rather than by French misrule). The willingness to extend meritorious opportunities to non-whites is used as an example of French progressivism. Once the French have nukes, NO ONE is leaving the empire. Viewed as a pariah by the West, the French are forced to invest in their colonies and look elsewhere for opportunities.
Would be a weird but interesting scenario.
So pretty damn entertaining!!!This sounds like the plot of For All Time where a military regime in Paris fights to hold the colonies until the last man and teams up with various lil buddies like Franco, Salazar, and an independent Sardinia to form a latin, catholic, and vaguely reactionary fascistic system. Eventually Jean Bedel Bokassa becomes a Napoleon II: electric Boogaloo when France sees a period of major crisis.
Yeah, of course. An apartheid Maghreb, state-sponsored cannibalism, Breton separatist terrorism and no nuclear taboo!So pretty damn entertaining!!!
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The narrative of the French resistance was little more than a useful fiction of postwar state-building for the fourth republic. There's a tendency today to read history backwards to the French revolution and read France as an inherently left-wing, revolutionary, or statist country compared to the English speaking peoples.If the Fall of France is done differently somehow, with Free France not being a thing perhaps. If France is largely let go by Germany as an aligned, but not puppet, state then it could survive the war in that form. Semi-authoritarian and nationalist, but still acceptable enough to not be taken down with the Reich. Of course there's no reason for Germany to do this, but it's one way for France to reemerge as a state with a more independent foreign policy.
Yeah, of course. An apartheid Maghreb, state-sponsored cannibalism, Breton separatist terrorism and no nuclear taboo!