AHC: Chinese in the Axis, Japanese in the Allies

Is it possible for the Sino-German Alliance and the Anglo-Japanese Alliance to have never petered off, so that the Chinese are on the Axis and the Japanese on the Allies in World War II or an equivalent conflict? If so, how, and what would be the repercussions?
 
I don't think so. While close Sino-German relations continuing may have been possible, the hard part is how to get Japan as an ally of the US and Britain.

Japan and the USA's interests in the Pacific were directly opposed, and for Britain to retain the Anglo-Japanese alliance would have been seen as unacceptable, both by the UK itself but even more so by Canada, due to the negative impact it would've had on relations with the US.
 
I don't think so. While close Sino-German relations continuing may have been possible, the hard part is how to get Japan as an ally of the US and Britain.

Japan and the USA's interests in the Pacific were directly opposed, and for Britain to retain the Anglo-Japanese alliance would have been seen as unacceptable, both by the UK itself but even more so by Canada, due to the negative impact it would've had on relations with the US.
You'd probably have to totally avert the militarization of Japan, and instead have the country liberalize in the 20s and 30s. How you'd accomplish that i have no idea, but Japanese militarist and expansionist aims among the ruling cliques were putting the country on an inevitable collision course with the US and the rest of OTL's Allies.
 
To avoid the rise of militant nationalism in Japan, you'd have to avert the Great Depression or at the very least ameliorate its repercussions in Japan
 

Cook

Banned
Is it possible for the Sino-German Alliance and the Anglo-Japanese Alliance to have never petered off...
Sino-German yes, definately; the collapse of the relationship between Nazi Germany and the KMT was principally because of Ribbentrop's enthusiasm for and inept handling of negotiations for an alliance with Japan.

Anglo-Japanese, no not really likely.
 
I think the easiest way to continue the Anglo-Japanese Alliance is to prevent US entry into the Great War. The alliance was dropped by the British largely in the hope that an alliance of sorts could be formed with the US in future wars; the US was obviously a more powerful ally. But the US was not offering an alliance, as after the war it returned to isolationism. If the US never enters the war, and stays isolationist, then I doubt the UK would agree to drop the treaty. It is one thing to drop one ally in hopes of picking up another. No matter how rich the US is, though, the UK will not drop an ally that fought with them in the war in order to please a US that did not fight and seems likely to fight alongside the UK in the future.

As to the Sino-German Alliance... well, it's not to hard to create a more lasting one, but towards what end? I think a lot of people who grew up in the current period of a rising China forget just how poor, backwards, and fractured China was then. An alliance with Japan offered, at a minimum, a powerful navy to distract the Anglo-Americans. China offers no navy, and a army with basically no power projection capabilities. The IJA, basically a pre-WWI light infantry force, was able to inflict devastating defeats on much larger Chinese armies. While China could distract the Allies (perhaps by attacking the Concessions?), to be frank I don't think it would take a very large British or French force to defeat China (defeat, not conquer).

I am at a event right now, but when I get home later I will try to post about the factors that lead to the militarists taking over in Japan, and what can be done to avoid it.
 
I think the easiest way to continue the Anglo-Japanese Alliance is to prevent US entry into the Great War. The alliance was dropped by the British largely in the hope that an alliance of sorts could be formed with the US in future wars; the US was obviously a more powerful ally.

I was under the impression that with the threat of Germany nullified, Japan was the next biggest threat (as war with America was unlikely and probably un-winnable).

I could Britain keeping the alliance with Japan, as a sort of war exhaustion. Britain literally cannot afford another war, so she stays nice with Japan because the alternative is much, much worse for her.
 
Have Japan be an "ally" in that both Britain and Japan are fighting a common enemy.

In the 30s you still have a rise of the militarists but there are not as powerful, have one or two of the main leaders killed in one of the coups that happened.

After Munich, Britain is looking for allies and the US is not being very helpful but Japan comes to the UK for assistance with the German/Nazi supported China.

The militarists tone down the verbal attacks about the British and there are some joint operations. It is mostly with the 2 Navy's, an amount of respect is seen between the two.

In 1939 Germany invades Poland, Britain, France and the all the ones in OTL declare war. There is a small squadron of Japanese ships at port in Britain at the time. Unofficially they say that they can help Britain but until DoW it is not official.

The squadron assists in patrolling for u-boats and as there are a couple of extra ships HMS Courageous is not sunk.

In the background, British politicians are trying to get Japan to declare war on Germany but Japan wants to be able to get concessions about China from Britain.

On Oct 30 Japan declares war on Germany and her ally China
 
You'd probably have to totally avert the militarization of Japan, and instead have the country liberalize in the 20s and 30s. How you'd accomplish that i have no idea, but Japanese militarist and expansionist aims among the ruling cliques were putting the country on an inevitable collision course with the US and the rest of OTL's Allies.

The only way you're going to do that is for the Diet to decisively stand up to and take control of the military. One of the biggest factors in Japan's militarization was the fact that the military was answerable only to the Emperor making it effectively a state within a state. If the Diet, with the Emperor's support, manages to bring the military to heel during the 20s and 30s you could probably avert the rise of Japanese imperialism.
 
If the Diet, with the Emperor's support, manages to bring the military to heel during the 20s and 30s you could probably avert the rise of Japanese imperialism.

which removes all reasons for the war, so china and japan sit out ww2 and try to profit by selling to russia/GB/USA.

what would they fight over? korea is one thing, the chinese claim there is ASB at best, but manchuria as in OTL would be unacceptable for china.
 
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