AHC : Chinese emperor claims the title of "Caesar"

[Axeman]

Weather it be the Russian Tsars claiming themselves to be the next Roman Empire, or countless ursurpers in both the Western Roman Empire and the Eastern Roman Empire / Byzantium, many have claimed this title.

You challenge , with a POD of 476 AD is to have a Chinese emperor claim the title of Caesar!

 

[Malta]

....why would they? The Title of the Emperor of the Middle Kingdom surpresses all claims to the Divine Mandate, all of the World is Centered around them, eventually though everything is under the magnificence of the Middle Kingdom and its Emperor even if they don't proess loyalty or submisson to him.

 

[Midas]

....why would they? The Title of the Emperor of the Middle Kingdom surpresses all claims to the Divine Mandate, all of the World is Centered around them, eventually though everything is under the magnificence of the Middle Kingdom and its Emperor even if they don't proess loyalty or submisson to him.

Agreed. It would be taking up a barbarian title. At best, it'd be meaningless. But I suppose that's why it's a challenge .

Perhaps in the very distant future, a more colonialism-oriented Europe takes over more cities and land in China before a revolution under a new imperial pushes it back. The Emperor claims himself "Caeser over all Romans" in a very poor translation, as a sign of reconciliation because he doesn't want to expel them all. -shrug-

 

[Polish Eagle]

Surviving Roman Empire expands through Persia into India. The Chinese wage a long, bloody frontier war against them in Central Asia. Eventually, an Emperor makes peace by marrying into the opposing family, so that the Emperor of China is also Caesar of Rome.

 

[Keenir]

Agreed. It would be taking up a barbarian title. At best, it'd be meaningless.

the Tang emperors held Turkic and Mongol titles.

 

[A.M. Turtle]

What is the Chinese translation of Caesar anyway?

 

[Midas]

the Tang emperors held Turkic and Mongol titles.

And that makes perfect sense to old Imperial geographers.

Saying the title would be "meaningless" is ignorant on my behalf, I should've said in most circumstances it would probably be already assumed, because to the Emperors, China was the center of the world. Literally, it was the center of civilization, and the Emperor ruled 天下. That is, all things (big or small) under heaven. So Rome is, under old Chinese imperial thought, probably already considered to be a vassal state to China. Caesar would just fall under the Emperor's other long list of minor titles all subservient to the 皇帝 of 天下.

At the same time, I'm not a savant when it comes to Romano-Chinese relations, and in some classes I've taken on Asian history during the Qin Dynasty there was some pretty interesting stuff from the Chinese on the Far West. They called it 大秦 (Great Qin) and made some interesting comparisons between it and China. If Rome manages to conquer the Sassanids and Persia and gains a link with China, I'm sure a war breaking out between them over Central Asia and the Romans losing, etc. could lead to an Emperor claiming the title alongside his many other ones- and perhaps they'd look at it as a sort of "great second" to China. It's interesting to note though that the Chinese thought Antioch was the capital of Rome, and the sources that I read seemed to only go as far west as the Levant (particularly Syria). But claiming titles was less of a big deal for most native Dynasties in general, as they were all sort of just assumed under the big bubble of the Emperor's title.

If not by marriage and (long-lasting) conquest of Persia, if the Romans (or Greeks) found (or maintain) a presence in Bactria/Central Asia and grow a larger sustainable, it's entirely plausible that if the Emperor conquered them he'd pick up the title if the locals used it (and I imagine they would if Bactria got split off from Rome again).

What is the Chinese translation of Caesar anyway?

Phonetically it's probably 凯撒(kǎi-sā). I imagine 凯撒is what they'd use, since even in Rome the term was sort of just passed down from Octavian onwards- it just relates back to Caesar himself and doesn't mean anything etymologically in and of itself (but certainly it carries a lot of semantic weight). There's nothing to translate in that sense, just what it sounds like.

 

[A.M. Turtle]

Phonetically it's probably 凯撒(kǎi-sā). I imagine 凯撒is what they'd use, since even in Rome the term was sort of just passed down from Octavian onwards- it just relates back to Caesar himself and doesn't mean anything etymologically in and of itself (but certainly it carries a lot of semantic weight). There's nothing to translate in that sense, just what it sounds like.

Thank you for answering my question.

 

[Cicero the Younger]

I know Zheng He has become a bit of a cliche around here, but I suppose that's one potential way. Say the rise of Europe in the 15th century is stunted for whatever reason (a larger Black Plague being the most obvious, but we could also toss in dynastic wars or prolonged failed Crusades or whatever). And say the Ming fleets aren't cut off, and make it all the way around Africa and reach a Europe not quite as powerful as in OTL. China wouldn't bother to actually conquer Europe, but they might declare the European kings to be vassals and demand tribute. Aware of the importance Europeans attached to the romanticized* memory of the Roman Empire, and seeking a title to legitimize or at least reinforce his superiority in the European mind, the Emperor adds "Caesar" to his titles. It would be a purely nominal title, but then, so was "Holy Roman Emperor", when you get right down to it.

*No pun intended.

Edit: Actually, this doesn't fit the OP's specifications, since the POD here is much, much later than 476. So I guess this doesn't really qualify. Oh well. I leave it up anyway, with the acknowledgment that I screwed up on the POD. After all, when it comes to titles like these, it's public recognition that matters more than geographical territory, so I think this way is more plausible than any kind of "China conquers the actual Roman world" scenario.