AHC: Chincha Island war + Paraguayan War

With a post 1860 POD embroil South America in a war that includes most of, if not all, the combatants involved in the Chincha Island war and Paraguayan War of OTL.
 
I had to look up the Chincha Islands war - very interesting indeed. Thanks for introducing me to that.

As to the question - it doesn't seem too impossible - perhaps have Paraguay draw Chile into the war with the temptation of Tierra del Fuego. Then Bolivia enters against Chile while their forces are tied up down South. Spain sees an opportunity to seize the islands and Bolivia and Chile end up fighting for control of them in a three-way slugfest.

On the other hand, I know very little South American history, so perhaps this is all totally implausible. :p

Cheers,
Ganesha
 

TFSmith121

Banned
In the post-revolutionary period of national

consolidation in South America in the Nineteenth Century, there were two "Big Wars":

1) the War of the Pacific, between Chile and a Peruvian-Bolivian alliance over the mineral wealth of the Atacama; and
2) The Triple Allliance (Argentina, Brazil, Uruguay) war with Paraguay over (essentially) control of the River Plate.

The Bolivian-Paraguay war (the Chaco war) came in the Twentieth Century, which was basically a conflict over control of (mostly) imagined mineral wealth.

The Chincha Islands conflict was a European power trying to make a grab at an economic resource (in this case, the mineral deposits in the Chinchas) combined with a definite "short, victorious war" gambit - not unlike the Spanish take-over of the Dominican Republic and the French intervention in Mexico in the same period.

The issue, of course, is that while all the American republics (North and South) were more than willing to try and take advantage of the others, in the event of a European power trying to intervene, they generally closed ranks.

So, if anything, the most likely outcome of a prolonged Spanish intervention in the Western Hemisphere in this period would be a growing alliance against Spain.

Which leads to the interesting possibility of an eventual "American" (north and south) invasion/liberation of the DR, Cuba, and Puerto Rico - maybe even an expedition to the Spanish Atlantic islands, or even the Phillippines and Guam...

Basically, a wider Spanish-American War, with the Latin American republics allied with the US, in the late 1860s.

Best,
 
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consolidation in South America in the Nineteenth Century, there were two "Big Wars":

1) the War of the Pacific, between Chile and a Peruvian-Bolivian alliance over the mineral wealth of the Atacama; and
2) The Triple Allliance (Argentina, Brazil, Uruguay) war with Paraguay over (essentially) control of the River Plate.

The Bolivian-Paraguay war (the Chaco war) came in the Twentieth Century, which was basically a conflict over control of (mostly) imagined mineral wealth.

The Chincha Islands conflict was a European power trying to make a grab at an economic resource (in this case, the mineral deposits in the Chinchas) combined with a definite "short, victorious war" gambit - not unlike the Spanish take-over of the Dominican Republic and the French intervetion in Mexico in the same period.

The issue, of course, is that while all the American republics (North and South) were more than willing to try and take advantage of the others, in the event of a European power trying to intervene, they generally closed ranks.

So, if anything, the most likely outcome of a prolonged Spanish intervention in the Western Hemisphere in this period would be a growing alliance against Spain.

Which leads to the interesting possibility of an eventual "American" (north and south) invasion/liberation of the DR, Cuba, and Puerto Rico - maybe even an expedition to the Spanish Atlantic islands, or even the Phillippines and Guam...

Basically, a wider Spanish-American War, with the Latin American republics allied with the US, in the late 1860s.

Best,
Interesting ideas thanks.

But I was initially wondering if any South American country would ally itself against another with Spain. Do you believe any would?
 

TFSmith121

Banned
I very much doubt it

Interesting ideas thanks.

But I was initially wondering if any South American country would ally itself against another with Spain. Do you believe any would?

The Royalist cause had been lost as a result of the Napoleonic wars; that reality, plus the example of the success of the US, made independence the first requirement of success in Latin American politics. Look at the fates of the pro-French faction in Mexico as an example. Many of them ended up against a wall, along with Maximillian.

The example of the Dominican Republic is actually very instructive; between the tremendous upheaval of the Haitian Revolution, Dominican independence, the impact of the multiple occupations during the Napoleonic wars, and dominance by Haiti, the return of the Spanish (which was unique in Latin American history) is almost understandable - and yet the restoration (of independence) movement broke out almost immediately.

The Chincha Islands conflict is another example; here's a situation where deep divisions between two neighboring South American states (Chile and Peru) were set aside in the face of European imperialism.


Best,
 
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I had to look up the Chincha Islands war - very interesting indeed. Thanks for introducing me to that.

As to the question - it doesn't seem too impossible - perhaps have Paraguay draw Chile into the war with the temptation of Tierra del Fuego. Then Bolivia enters against Chile while their forces are tied up down South. Spain sees an opportunity to seize the islands and Bolivia and Chile end up fighting for control of them in a three-way slugfest.

On the other hand, I know very little South American history, so perhaps this is all totally implausible. :p

Cheers,
Ganesha

Tierra del Fuego, a temptation in 1860? I don't think so.

Tension in the Patagonia didn't start till after Triple Alliance War. Before it, Chile said it was theirs, and they were in no rush to settle or control it, after all Argentina was a serious mess. After the war, it became clear Argentina was not going to be such a mess anymore, and started to focus in Patagonia.

And then Bolivia declaring war, and all. It makes no sense. Chile went to war OTL to seize the saltpeter fields after the Chincha Islands War, because it had almost none. Bolivia has no reason to go to war.

Spain on the other side could try to seize the Islands as OTL, but I don't see that relating to the war in Paraguay.

At best you could have Bolivia trying to take part of the Chaco Boreal, just to make their claims have a solid base.
 
Tierra del Fuego, a temptation in 1860? I don't think so.

Tension in the Patagonia didn't start till after Triple Alliance War. Before it, Chile said it was theirs, and they were in no rush to settle or control it, after all Argentina was a serious mess. After the war, it became clear Argentina was not going to be such a mess anymore, and started to focus in Patagonia.

And then Bolivia declaring war, and all. It makes no sense. Chile went to war OTL to seize the saltpeter fields after the Chincha Islands War, because it had almost none. Bolivia has no reason to go to war.

Spain on the other side could try to seize the Islands as OTL, but I don't see that relating to the war in Paraguay.

At best you could have Bolivia trying to take part of the Chaco Boreal, just to make their claims have a solid base.
'

What if the gold in the region was pursued earlier? According to The Gold Diggings of Cape Horn A Study of Life in Tierra del Fuego and Patagonia by John R. Spears, "several years before 1867 it was known that gold existed on the east coast of Patagonia. . .has been confirmed in various places and at different times by Chilean miners and shipwrecked seamen".

Commander George Chaworth Musters found gold nuggets in Punta Arenas too. However, the rush didn't begin in earnest until 1884 or so. Give the people of South America a bit more gold fever and you can have a fight earlier.
 
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